What's a fair wage on a family farm?

capfits

Member
If the OP gets 35k so should his brother, plus mother has to live off something plus re investment on the farm, 230 acres, mainly rented, it ain't going to happen.

And therefore I thing you can guess where I am coming from. Sorry if that sounds cruel, nasty etc reality has to bite at some point otherwise dissatisfaction will rise, certainly does not like room in such circumstances to radically overhaul the enterprise to provide a reasonable living standard now or going forward.
 

balerman

Member
Location
N Devon
Bit of a difficult one for me to weigh up tbh listening to people's take on things. Yes I have a lot of benefits on the job admitably - I have access to a fully funded Land Rover if needed (used by all), but use my own car for private use, I pay council tax in full, grow my own veg, have access to plenty of meat (if on the end of its shelf life) - in a nutshell my living costs are pretty low like a lot of farmer's. Sadly I lost my father five years ago, and mother is the owner of the actual farm, so in theory I am a tenant, albeit a director, the farm is small (<30 ac) but through the years we have built up our beef herd from 45 to 150 cows and have managed to rent around 200 acres of grassland at virtually a peppercorn rent and bought a good suite of grassland kit. I think the actual point is that to get to this point we are having to put more and more in, and it feels as if I'm on a treadmill getting faster and faster and I'm not sure the carrot keeping me on it is sufficient. I enjoy my work, and mentally its not usually stressful - it's just there's so much of it and I feel at a personal level I'm not making a success of life......

I'm lucky in so far as I don't have to provide for a family (as a bachelor), if I had one I'd shudder to think how I'd bring them up, I certainly wouldn't be able to give them the upbringing I had. I know my father earn't four/five times what I do now (not in ag'), and that was in the eighties.....
Being brutally honest here and no offence meant at all,if things were to change(and they do) say the rent of your 200 acres went up to average levels,where would that leave the business,there are 2 of you and presumably your eventual inheritance would be at best half of a 30 acre farm and retail meat business.I know it is much easier when looking from the outside but I think I would walk away and either work for someone else or start up a business of your own,i suspect if you were married this would have happened a long time ago,a woman coming into a family has been the cause of many barely viable family partnerships to dissolve.Like I said,no offence meant at all,i could easily have found myself in a similar position.
 

Pennine Ploughing

Member
Mixed Farmer
ask your brother if he want to sell his share, or buy your share,

as for some saying there might be some inheritance some day, the guy is 35, and he needs more than the "it will be yours some day" promises can and are often broken, and emotional blackmail is often rife among farmers, if they want you to have it, then get a percentage of it every year, if they won't do that, then either get a proper wage or walk
 

james ds

Member
Location
leinster
Your on 10K for the house so currently taking out 18k each, that is a reasonable/ very good wage on a family farm in these times. (esp if the farm pays for a truck )
Go get a job , 18 k is no use for a family , I have friends working a new road job in Scotland , free accomadition and taking home €1100 / week . And that company can't get workers for less , so wake up and go earn a living .
 

hindmaist

Member
The majority of farmers in the UK would be financially better off renting their land to large scale specialist producers and seeking employment elsewhere.Most,as long as they make enough cash to get by on, will continue to farm their land themselves regardless.This is a lifestyle choice.
The role of spending power in the quality of life calculation varies greatly from one person to another.If you aren't happy,change.
 

Douglasmn

Member
8k doesn't sound like a lot but I guess the farm covers all housing and associated bills and also your vehicle. So it's 8k disposable income per year. Isn't that about average? 8k to spend on whatever you please? If you want to earn more money then just...work in a way that earns more money. Diversify in some way, start doing contract work or else consider a career outside of farming that will cover the costs of someone else doing your farm work and also leave you with an extra profit. Probably none of the above are particularly easy, but they're all possible. And again...if it's £8k disposable income per year, then that is really not bad at all by the standards of the general population.
 

james ds

Member
Location
leinster
8k doesn't sound like a lot but I guess the farm covers all housing and associated bills and also your vehicle. So it's 8k disposable income per year. Isn't that about average? 8k to spend on whatever you please? If you want to earn more money then just...work in a way that earns more money. Diversify in some way, start doing contract work or else consider a career outside of farming that will cover the costs of someone else doing your farm work and also leave you with an extra profit. Probably none of the above are particularly easy, but they're all possible. And again...if it's £8k disposable income per year, then that is really not bad at all by the standards of the general population.
8k is about 160/ week , my wife would spend that in tesco every week never mind rear a family and have a life .
 

Nearly

Member
Location
North of York
Because discussing inheritance too early, Grouse, is the very best route to the breaking up of good family relationships (second only to discussing it too late).
I'd put those the other way round.
If Op is asking about wages then it's already time to discuss inheritance.

£8k a year (essentially disposable) income is ok if the farm's (50%) yours. It's not enough if it's all going to the donkey sanctuary the moment that you step out of line. :eek:
 

bankrupt

Member
Location
EX17/20
I'd put those the other way round.
:eek:

Me too, Nearly.

Sadly, everyone knows of farms where Great-Grandma still signs all the cheques, her son having worked extremely hard for 50 years under very difficult circumstances, and her grandson for 25, now hopefully to get it all successfully sorted out in good time for her great-grandchildren.
 
Last edited:
Location
Devon
Go get a job , 18 k is no use for a family , I have friends working a new road job in Scotland , free accomadition and taking home €1100 / week . And that company can't get workers for less , so wake up and go earn a living .

I totally agree with you that 18k a year is NO good for either a single person living on their own or someone with a family but the reality is that farming returns currently mean that many farmers take out this or even less ( even including things that are paid by the business in directly ) a year, its a good wage on current returns but FAR from good enough in the real world.

Current returns/ input prices are unsustainable in the long term and the industry shouldn't have got into the situation it has where farmers cant take out a wage that compares with other industry's ( ie 30k a year for example ) when you account for the hours worked and the skills of the farmer.

Trouble is if subs go then the situation will get a lot worse, a nonsense that some people have suggested on here on other threads that people should be running 500 ewes/ 80 suckler cows as a weekend job and work all week in another full time job to earn a wage! these sort of stock numbers should easily be given returns ( but they aren't on many farms ) to enable someone to be at home working at least half the week and be able to draw out a sensible wage for the hours worked.

Take the OP, say he makes £200 net profit head on his suckler cows excluding the subs, to take 30k out each for the two directors and then another 20k for the mother means that they would be drawing out 80k a year so at £200 head net profit per cow means that they would need to run 400 sucklers between them and even them they still wouldn't have anything other than the BPS payment to reinvest in the farm ( assuming no other farming/ business income )

The job is getting a numbers game thus why farms are getting bigger and bigger with less labour units per stock unit at a rate of knots.
 

J 1177

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Durham, UK
I totally agree with you that 18k a year is NO good for either a single person living on their own or someone with a family but the reality is that farming returns currently mean that many farmers take out this or even less ( even including things that are paid by the business in directly ) a year, its a good wage on current returns but FAR from good enough in the real world.

Current returns/ input prices are unsustainable in the long term and the industry shouldn't have got into the situation it has where farmers cant take out a wage that compares with other industry's ( ie 30k a year for example ) when you account for the hours worked and the skills of the farmer.

Trouble is if subs go then the situation will get a lot worse, a nonsense that some people have suggested on here on other threads that people should be running 500 ewes/ 80 suckler cows as a weekend job and work all week in another full time job to earn a wage! these sort of stock numbers should easily be given returns ( but they aren't on many farms ) to enable someone to be at home working at least half the week and be able to draw out a sensible wage for the hours worked.

Take the OP, say he makes £200 net profit head on his suckler cows excluding the subs, to take 30k out each for the two directors and then another 20k for the mother means that they would be drawing out 80k a year so at £200 head net profit per cow means that they would need to run 400 sucklers between them and even them they still wouldn't have anything other than the BPS payment to reinvest in the farm ( assuming no other farming/ business income )

The job is getting a numbers game thus why farms are getting bigger and bigger with less labour units per stock unit at a rate of knots.
Sad state of affairs but i think your about right.
 
ask your brother if he want to sell his share, or buy your share,

as for some saying there might be some inheritance some day, the guy is 35, and he needs more than the "it will be yours some day" promises can and are often broken, and emotional blackmail is often rife among farmers, if they want you to have it, then get a percentage of it every year, if they won't do that, then either get a proper wage or walk

Too true , know a fella who took nearly a life time of cr@p only for the old man to remarry after his wife died and start a new family in his sixties, the new sons are now running the farm and look like they'll get it all . The original son works for a utilities company now and wishes he'd left the farm 30 years ago.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
It all depends a bit on your needs and working style. I don't have a family and my Mrs works, earning far more than I do. I receive about 8k a year plus my utility bills. I don't work that hard if I'm honest. I ponder a lot of things, try new things and have long teabreaks. If I did need more money I'd get my finger out and earn it, but at the moment I am not sure what I'd do with more money. Probably just waste it.
 

J 1177

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Durham, UK
Im in the position where i make all the calls farming and business wise and im the only one with access to the farm account but the farm asset wise belongs to my dad. I take very little out of the business apart from household bills but thats down to me. My wife works and i do off farm work too. My parents have been very honest re. Wills and shown me them. Im trying to build a future so my son can take a decent wage and have his household bills paid. This is on my head and iv not been forced into it.
You have to make your own decision and know where you stand. There may be a level of trust involved in this
 

Skimmer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
North Notts
Too true , know a fella who took nearly a life time of cr@p only for the old man to remarry after his wife died and start a new family in his sixties, the new sons are now running the farm and look like they'll get it all . The original son works for a utilities company now and wishes he'd left the farm 30 years ago.
Similar happened to my neighbours.
 

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