What's stopping you from becoming regenerative/holistic?

[Rainmaker]

You can be/do either without spending money, too.

There seems to be a strand of the regenerative ag movement struggling with the grieving process to the extent they're just replacing one type of expenditure with another - this type of fert with that type... this crop with that crop mix.... because their "whole" operation hasn't really shifted.

It's maybe worth noting here that you can be quite regeneratively-minded yet still be trapped in the commodity-production game, which doesn't really provide any extra freedom or make miracles happen

It's a tricky one Pete, the long and the short of it is as arable farmers for the most part we are supplying commodity crops.
I was approached by one the core promoters of the movement in NZ about supplying seed for "diverse species mixes" awhile back. He promised a higher price than the merchants pay but........ there was no monthly increment for storage and he only wanted about 2 tonnes, whats one do with the rest? sell it to the reputable merchant the first guy is trying to under cut?

Your correct, about replacing one type of fert with another. The improved biology will no doubt help release nutrients to the crop but possibly not release them fast enough for a crop of spring wheat when it wants to get a move on.
For now I veri rate apply nutrients to even out and somewhat balance the bas sat%,thats better than just blanket applying IMO. The worm counts are increasing each year and the soil is alive with little gritters,slugs are no problem even though I can find them.
Baby steps here

 

[Bury the Trash]

err
I am 100% arable ( although I would like to integrate trade cattle when I can afford to buy some - they crazy money at the moment over here ) & would like to think I am heading down the regenerative path
Long way to go yet, but I think the point is you are always moving & improving & adapting & learning anyway . . .

Certainly, all my thinking is from a regen point of view & all decisions are based on what’s best for the soil, the biology, the environment, my soul . . .

I've never been 100 % arable.

that's where the problem lies for some.

Ours is a rotation including plenty of grass or forage crop plus the complimentary livestock , always has been, I've no intention of changing that but I m not doing it well enough, that I'm sure of.
and I'm always reluctant to go completely organic , but hate the needy way we go to the chem salesman. Not that there much spread or sprayed here relatively speaking to 'modern' amounts.

Machinery too, I hate money tied up in sophisticated machinery, not that we have any of that either come to think of it

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Thanks all. Great insights and conversation. Seems like the main issue is the required mindset shift and suddenly doing something different to what you're used to. How can that be made easier?

For context, I'm not actually a farmer. I would classify myself as a conscious consumer who has recently been made aware of the impact my food shop at Sainsbury's has on the environment and the benefits of improved management. I'm wondering how to change this and get more regenerative management on farms

First thing - what is "regenerative"?

To me, regenerative is a living systems approach, and then we look to define "what is life"?

A living system is where the parts of the whole are communicating with one another - hence my quote that "society is extremely degenerative"

hence the living system may be defined by the relationships between the parts. Life, regenerative ability, doesn't actually exist in any one place.

Say I'm a potato grower.. you as a customer might quite like my little potatoes because you prefer to bake them in the microwave - but the supermarket buyer simply rejects those spuds "out of spec".

There's the introduction to a second barrier, the lack of profit in degenerative systems has meant expansion; it's meant specialisation for survival, and it's driven people off the land to be replaced by machinery.

So the CEO is the COO and also the main source of labour, he/she likely doesn't "have time for marketing" due to being busy on the pitchfork for 14 hours per day. The connection between the urban consumer and the primary producer is outsourced to the supermarket, centralised businesses don'y allow for regeneration the way (for example) a Farmer's Market or even a cooperative model (you buy a share in my crops for a subscription, and I give you a share of my crops as I harvest them).

As Roy suggests these are very real barriers to producer's mental health, it's certainly not just about soil health and this is where the "regenerative agriculture" movement is going to fall over. We're still too scared or ashamed to have the open conversations about parts of our whole.

Regeneration is like a rebirth, or it is to me. I purposefully avoid recipes, like how long a cell of grass will keep my cattle happy - question everything, all of the time.

The most regenerative action then, is to cut out the supermarket and find each other - you can get my little spuds for next to nothing, and I have an outlet for my 'unique' potatoes.

 

[james.l]

The most regenerative action then, is to cut out the supermarket and find each other - you can get my little spuds for next to nothing, and I have an outlet for my 'unique' potatoes.

That’s what I’m thinking. Why not setup a massive online farmers market where any farmer can sell to any one? Help is provided with marketing etc so farmers can focus on the work they know and there’s a community aspect to help farmers deal with the mental aspects and learn from each other. As well as create a connection between the farmer and consumer so they know where their food comes from and how it’s grown

The difficulty is to find enough farmers initially to give consumers a range of options so it replicates the variety seen in a supermarket and you can do your whole shop on the platform. And getting farmers onto the platform initially as most already have an outlet for their regenerative produce (local boxes, farmers market’s etc) and so don’t see the initial need

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Community Supported Agriculture – what is it? - How to achieve sustainable food production for increased profit and well-being

For over 25 years, Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) has become a popular way for consumers to buy local, seasonal food directly from a farmer. Here are the basics: a farmer offers a certain number of "shares" to the public. Typically the share consists of a box of vegetables, but other farm...

rainwaterrunoff.com

This is the type of thing that is pretty much bound to happen in densely populated areas like the UK.

 

[james.l]

I think something similar could. As a consumer I would want to have adequate selection to pick and choice (what if this week I don’t want carrots despite it being carrot season) or want to get a special ingredient or more ingredients for a dinner party.

Some system where there is pre-payment at the start of the season or a guaranteed floor for earnings if there are fewer sales that season on the platform could be an option

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Community Supported Agriculture – what is it? - How to achieve sustainable food production for increased profit and well-being

For over 25 years, Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) has become a popular way for consumers to buy local, seasonal food directly from a farmer. Here are the basics: a farmer offers a certain number of "shares" to the public. Typically the share consists of a box of vegetables, but other farm...

rainwaterrunoff.com

This is the type of thing that is pretty much bound to happen in densely populated areas like the UK.

I think something similar could. As a consumer I would want to have adequate selection to pick and choice (what if this week I don’t want carrots despite it being carrot season) or want to get a special ingredient or more ingredients for a dinner party.

Some system where there is pre-payment at the start of the season or a guaranteed floor for earnings if there are fewer sales that season on the platform could be an option

It's clearly time to "think outside the box" and both of these are good ideas. It's looking distinctly possible that we will find ourselves part of a trade deal which suits the USA in the fairly near future. At that point being close to our consumers could be the difference between economic life and death.

 

[som farmer]

farming is going through a massive change, and we don't really know, how it will effect us, pre c19, i'd have said environment, now, after this, not so sure. Perhaps one of the unexpected results, are a re-connection, with the public, or some of, and it may be the 'right' time, to make the most of it. There is unease, by some of the gen public, over the standards of food production, from the states, farm shops have had a boost, farmings even made the news, and, I expect, small scale 'honesty box' type sales, could produce a reasonable return. If, as is almost certain, a trade deal is struck, with the USA, and we go down the environmental, or carbon eating route, taken, in the round, those small scale sales, could both help financially, and enjoyably, with the public. But, one thing is certain, whatever happens, it is up to us, to make the most of it,

 

[james.l]

https://www.forumforthefuture.org/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=e4bf6296-6037-4c58-8dc3-daa578a5a58e

I came across this report on scaling regenerative agriculture. Slight US focus but I think many of the barriers and opportunities are the same anywhere

 

[wormy535]

What do you all think are the prospects for REKO rings for direct sales collaborations in the UK? These have really taken off in Scandinavia and some other European countries. I can't find much about them in the UK.

 

[Oldmacdonald]

The worry of decreased yeilds, and time required to build back up. Slim margins, can't afford to lose 1t per ha.

Climate. We are in cool north east Scotland and need early grass growth. We need grass to be growing long before the clover has warmed up.

 

[JohnGalway]

What do you all think are the prospects for REKO rings for direct sales collaborations in the UK? These have really taken off in Scandinavia and some other European countries. I can't find much about them in the UK.

They're a great job for the producer particularly, if they take off. You'll know what to bring, where, and when and you'll already have been paid for it. There's a "country market" across the road from where I live during Summer - at least there was pre covid. You couldn't drag me there to sell something, pure dead time, and if it rains it's a waste of a very long, energy sapping day.

 

[james.l]

What do you all think are the prospects for REKO rings for direct sales collaborations in the UK? These have really taken off in Scandinavia and some other European countries. I can't find much about them in the UK.

I don't know enough about REKO rings to comment on their prospects but would love to hear other people's views.

What I am working on is creating something similar without the confines of a specific REKO ring and the need for dropping off/collecting items. I am working to create a platform where farmers can list the items they have available each week (e.g. on a Saturday), customers can purchase them by e.g. Wednesday, items are harvested and shipped on Thursday/Friday and arrive with the customer on the following Saturday. In addition each farmer can post photos/videos of their farm and create their own brands and engage with customers. As the platform expands, additional benefits to farmers, such as financing, education etc. could be offered to make it easier.

If anyone has any comments or thoughts on the idea and things it'd need to include, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Samcowman]

Would that mean each individual farmer sending their items to each individual customer? If so Seems a lot of extra posting rather than sending them into a central collection centre then the collection centre sending the whole order for each customer out.
There is something near me called Frome Food Hub. If you want to have a look it seems the sort of thing you are aiming for.

 

[james.l]

There would be centralised collection/processing and distribution to end customers. It would be delivery to customers rather than collection to make it more convenient

 

[Samcowman]

There would be centralised collection/processing and distribution to end customers. It would be delivery to customers rather than collection to make it more convenient

Sounds very interesting. If you were in my area it would be something that would be worth investigating.

 

[wormy535]

Our local Makers Market is delivering some farm produce now http://www.themakersmarket.co.uk/
....and like this sounds, the farmers are dropping off to a central point and someone is making a business out of the delivery side. It seems good, but I personally find it a bit confusing on the consumer end that there's a lot of craft makers mixed up on the website with the food retailers but perhaps that was how it originated. We had the Food Alliance at one point but it seems to have died out, perhaps because of the fixed pick-up slot. I agree with the above that the delivery is key nowadays.

 

[james.l]

Our local Makers Market is delivering some farm produce now http://www.themakersmarket.co.uk/
....and like this sounds, the farmers are dropping off to a central point and someone is making a business out of the delivery side. It seems good, but I personally find it a bit confusing on the consumer end that there's a lot of craft makers mixed up on the website with the food retailers but perhaps that was how it originated. We had the Food Alliance at one point but it seems to have died out, perhaps because of the fixed pick-up slot. I agree with the above that the delivery is key nowadays.

Yes, the markers market does seem more focused on craft makers rather than producers/growers. Is there anything you don't like about using it? Dropping off at a central point rather than having it collected doesn't sound great

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yes, the markers market does seem more focused on craft makers rather than producers/growers. Is there anything you don't like about using it? Dropping off at a central point rather than having it collected doesn't sound great

That's why we sell at the Farmer's Market in Dunedin, quiet days are better because you get to have a decent chin-wag with your consumers.
Find out what they like, what they don't like etc.

 

[onesiedale]

What do you all think are the prospects for REKO rings for direct sales collaborations in the UK? These have really taken off in Scandinavia and some other European countries. I can't find much about them in the UK.

There already is such a platform. See link below;

Derby Market

Welcome to the Derby market page on NeighbourFood

www.neighbourfood.co.uk

As yet I haven't approached them about sales of our own ice cream and dairy products as we're concentrating on sales direct off the farm. However I can see the benefit of using it as a stepping stone to get into an area in an organised manner.
Has anyone out there had experience with this marketing website?
@delilah