What's your AFC

[hendrebc]

Hi Hendrebc. Good to see you looking at some basic technology as pasture management isn't rocket science.

I prefer higher residuals during the growing seasons to get the best animal performance which obviously reduce the seasonal pasture available but can be read off the scale on the stick.
These figures were shown because sheep do not graze below 20mm, so why show how much DM is there if it is not readily available.

If feeding off longer pasture to cattle, best to use a plate meter as it becomes a bit of a guessing game once over 15cm long. However sheep respond best to shorter and younger leaf age pastures, therefore such pasture sticks as shown in photos above are quite adequate.

The greatest advantage is in educating pasture managers to feed budgeting, as such precision is where the real money is to be made and seasonal crises avoided early.

Thanks @Global ovine
I did think it might be something like that and you didn't have to graze down to the 20mm but thought I'd ask anyway as much for anyone else's benefit reading as mine. I have a 2 friends in a WhatsApp group following this thread and asking me questions and I don't always know the answer so I'm sure they will appreciate that.
What sort of a residual would you go down to for sheep during the growing season then? I've been going on 1500 but was told I should go a bit lower on this first pre lambing rotation.

 

[ShooTa]

Im also heading down toward 1500 - its hard working it out in areas with more moss - but having held better grazing covers last year we have a hell of a lot less moss...
my sward stick has winter grass at 4cm being at 1300

 

[Global ovine]

Thanks @Global ovine

What sort of a residual would you go down to for sheep during the growing season then? I've been going on 1500 but was told I should go a bit lower on this first pre lambing rotation.

That is a question that farmers need to understand, as one size does not fit all situations, so think about these:

1. All initial spring growth (leaf that grows in the first 6 weeks) is of very high quality (digestibility), even the so called weed grasses.
2. But leaves of most grasses after about 24 days of age rapidly lose digestibility, so it pays to eat them off before they mature and are therefore worth less in animal response to ingesting them.
3. Ryegrass is the most common desired grass species in most temperate zone pastures. Work to the 3 leaf rule. When the Ryegrass tiller has put up its third leaf, its first leaf starts to deteriorate and die. This takes place faster in the spring than at other times of the year. Rotation length can be determined by this one feature.
4. Residuals in the spring is more about how much leaf area is left for the plants to photosynthesise and bounce back, than about cleaning out the bottom of the pasture which happens over winter months when growth is negligible.
5. Pasture age is another factor compounding decisions as individual fields vary in composition and density. New pastures under 3 years of age are quite open and do not have a lot of undesired species filling the gaps. They are generally more erect and uniform in composition. These can tolerate longer residuals. Say 1000+ kgs DM/ha a first couple of grazings. Then lower the residuals when stem emergence occurs.
6. Old pastures with more undesired species present need higher grazing pressure to suppress the undesired species from being rejected by animals so they dominate the pasture. Therefore graze such pastures lower. Say 750 kgs DM/ha.
7. Sheep pastures over 1500 kgs DM/ha are usually beyond the 24 day leaf age and 3 leaf stage rules. In other words, the rotation length is too long for the pasture growth rate. OK for cattle. Obtaining your regional pasture growth rate curves is really useful information on planning a feed budget.

 

[hendrebc]

That is a question that farmers need to understand, as one size does not fit all situations, so think about these:

1. All initial spring growth (leaf that grows in the first 6 weeks) is of very high quality (digestibility), even the so called weed grasses.
2. But leaves of most grasses after about 24 days of age rapidly lose digestibility, so it pays to eat them off before they mature and are therefore worth less in animal response to ingesting them.
3. Ryegrass is the most common desired grass species in most temperate zone pastures. Work to the 3 leaf rule. When the Ryegrass tiller has put up its third leaf, its first leaf starts to deteriorate and die. This takes place faster in the spring than at other times of the year. Rotation length can be determined by this one feature.
4. Residuals in the spring is more about how much leaf area is left for the plants to photosynthesise and bounce back, than about cleaning out the bottom of the pasture which happens over winter months when growth is negligible.
5. Pasture age is another factor compounding decisions as individual fields vary in composition and density. New pastures under 3 years of age are quite open and do not have a lot of undesired species filling the gaps. They are generally more erect and uniform in composition. These can tolerate longer residuals. Say 1000+ kgs DM/ha a first couple of grazings. Then lower the residuals when stem emergence occurs.
6. Old pastures with more undesired species present need higher grazing pressure to suppress the undesired species from being rejected by animals so they dominate the pasture. Therefore graze such pastures lower. Say 750 kgs DM/ha.
7. Sheep pastures over 1500 kgs DM/ha are usually beyond the 24 day leaf age and 3 leaf stage rules. In other words, the rotation length is too long for the pasture growth rate. OK for cattle. Obtaining your regional pasture growth rate curves is really useful information on planning a feed budget.

Makes sense. stounds similar to what I've been doing when I compare my platemeters readings with the readings on the swardstick you gave me. I did put dry ewes into longer stuff than that after weaning. They did ok though most put condition on.
Going to bookmark that post thank you

 

[hendrebc]

Just back from measuring the next field the ewes are meant to go to on Monday morning. It's grown 200kg/DM/ha in 11 days so roughly 18kg a day. 10 year old reseed not had any fertilizer or muck pH is a touch too low but can't remember what it is. How does that compare to everyone else? Don't expect my old permanent pasture to have done that though looking at it. Will get round everywhere next week.

 

[Jockers84]

We don't grow much if any grass here Dec-March and anything that was kept will be burnt off by a hard easterly wind from the north sea, I've been trying to sacrifice one park each years and hold the ewes on it for 2months pre lambing with haylage & licks then 4 weeks pre lambing haylage and 18% ewe nuts. It takes a while to recover but has been well cleaned out and had a lot of sheep poo across it. Ideally we would away winter but we have a glut of growth over the summer so trying to feed back our own haylage. Very hard to get a balance and make progress with the rotational grazing when the grass growth is a spike. Couple that with quiet unpredictable weather and it could be easy to get caught with your pants down if over stocked. If we had more room for cattle we might be able to prevent ending up with too much haylage but that's a future plan. Buying grazing cattle doesn't look to pay enough for he hassle.

 

[Woolless]

We don't grow much if any grass here Dec-March and anything that was kept will be burnt off by a hard easterly wind from the north sea, I've been trying to sacrifice one park each years and hold the ewes on it for 2months pre lambing with haylage & licks then 4 weeks pre lambing haylage and 18% ewe nuts. It takes a while to recover but has been well cleaned out and had a lot of sheep poo across it. Ideally we would away winter but we have a glut of growth over the summer so trying to feed back our own haylage. Very hard to get a balance and make progress with the rotational grazing when the grass growth is a spike. Couple that with quiet unpredictable weather and it could be easy to get caught with your pants down if over stocked. If we had more room for cattle we might be able to prevent ending up with too much haylage but that's a future plan. Buying grazing cattle doesn't look to pay enough for he hassle.

We would have many of the same issues here, albeit not as extreme as at your location, and also the same solutions.
Buying trading stock seems to work a lot better in NZ than it does here. Buying cattle in spring to sell autumn isn't going to achieve much other than keep the grass down.

 

[unlacedgecko]

We would have many of the same issues here, albeit not as extreme as at your location, and also the same solutions.
Buying trading stock seems to work a lot better in NZ than it does here. Buying cattle in spring to sell autumn isn't going to achieve much other than keep the grass down.

Tack cattle?

 

[Woolless]

Tack cattle?

Possibly but I would rather conserve the surplus. I stock fairly tightly, so don't often make enough to feed ewes all winter. Don't mind buying some in but bales at £40 takes a bit of forgetting!

 

[muleman]

im a bit green to all this, where is it you have to measure please?

 

[Obi Wan]

We would have many of the same issues here, albeit not as extreme as at your location, and also the same solutions.
Buying trading stock seems to work a lot better in NZ than it does here. Buying cattle in spring to sell autumn isn't going to achieve much other than keep the grass down.

yes the figures on buying stores at the most expensive time of year and selling at the cheapest doesn't tally up, I’m toiling with out wintering 15 -20 luing or similar heifers on the heather hill, just need someone to fix the fences, put a hardstand in and a bit of shelter without bursting the bank.

 

[NZDan]

Different season here but we're at a out 1200kg 10 days before tups go out. Going to need a very good winter to get ewes through.

 

[hendrebc]

Different season here but we're at a out 1200kg 10 days before tups go out. Going to need a very good winter to get ewes through.

Has it been particularly dry there? What's it like other years?
I went grass measuring on Saturday but all the measurements are still scribbles in a notebook right now. Will stick them in a spreadsheet tomorrow sometime and see where we're at. We've had some significant growth in South facing fields but very very little or none in North facing ones.

 

[NZDan]

Has it been particularly dry there? What's it like other years?
I went grass measuring on Saturday but all the measurements are still scribbles in a notebook right now. Will stick them in a spreadsheet tomorrow sometime and see where we're at. We've had some significant growth in South facing fields but very very little or none in North facing ones.

Yes very dry. 18mm of rain since mid December and been hot and windy.

 

[Woolless]

Went out with notebook and swardstick yesterday. Lambing paddocks average 1700kgdm/ha, which is about as good as I've had it at this time. Worst field was 1400 but it can lie wet and all the rain we've had won't have helped. Took soil temperature in one field, 5.8 degrees.

Just had silage analysed and it's not as good as I would have liked, so going to struggle giving late pregnancy ewes sufficient energy. But given the grass growth, will probably get them off sacrifice field a week early and graze a couple of more exposed fields before settling them on the lambing paddocks.

 

[hendrebc]

Just worked my AFC as of Saturday and it was still 1650 over the grazing platform where the twin ewes are rotating. Demand from them is 7kg/DM/ha so the average growth is about that.
But it varies a lot between different fields. The best performing fields have grown over 20kg/DM/ha since the 23rd February but there are some fields that haven't grown at all since then and are sitting there laughing at me lots of room for improvement though
Anyway I have 14 days of grazing ahead of them (even assuming no growth before then) but they will need set stocking for lambing and they should be starting in about 10 days. I don't think I've done too bad for a first attempt.
Farmax graph for anyone who is interested

 

[NZDan]

Just worked my AFC as of Saturday and it was still 1650 over the grazing platform where the twin ewes are rotating. Demand from them is 7kg/DM/ha so the average growth is about that.
But it varies a lot between different fields. The best performing fields have grown over 20kg/DM/ha since the 23rd February but there are some fields that haven't grown at all since then and are sitting there laughing at me lots of room for improvement though
Anyway I have 14 days of grazing ahead of them (even assuming no growth before then) but they will need set stocking for lambing and they should be starting in about 10 days. I don't think I've done too bad for a first attempt.
Farmax graph for anyone who is interested
View attachment 864430

How long do you set stock for at lambing? We have been changing ram harness color every 6 days( 3 x 6 days then 17 days), set stock each group and then mix mobs and start rotating when youngest twin lambs are 4 days old and youngest triplets are 7 days old. This year we're going to go 4 x 5 days then 14 days for harness colors and start rotating when youngest lambs are 8 days old. Will have cows following ewes as cows mixed with ewes mis-mother lambs.

 

[Global ovine]

Just worked my AFC as of Saturday and it was still 1650 over the grazing platform where the twin ewes are rotating. Demand from them is 7kg/DM/ha so the average growth is about that.
But it varies a lot between different fields. The best performing fields have grown over 20kg/DM/ha since the 23rd February but there are some fields that haven't grown at all since then and are sitting there laughing at me lots of room for improvement though
Anyway I have 14 days of grazing ahead of them (even assuming no growth before then) but they will need set stocking for lambing and they should be starting in about 10 days. I don't think I've done too bad for a first attempt.
Farmax graph for anyone who is interested

@hendrebc you have done very well achieving that "magic day" balance so early (great term borrowed from our dairy brothers meaning supply matching demand). This means that your later spring flush of growth may take some controlling unless you have cattle following as @NZDan has or can conserve etc.
One thing sticks out like the proverbial dogs bo!!ocks, that is the opportunity to do something about those under performing fields mentioned (highlighted) above.
Before you rush in with all manner of machinery, try to work out why this so. Is it a problem with drainage/compaction, soil fertility/pH, lack of clover and or poor grass species etc.?
Programmes such as Farmax do identify those parts of the farm that are letting the side down as the season progresses. No season has as much affect on profit as spring feed availability, so they would be a priority to sort out in my assessment.
As you have the system worked out, I too suggest you try to shorten the set stocking period. Ram harness and crayons work very well. Also scanners can age foetuses quite well to help with separating later lambing ewes.

 

[hendrebc]

How long do you set stock for at lambing? We have been changing ram harness color every 6 days( 3 x 6 days then 17 days), set stock each group and then mix mobs and start rotating when youngest twin lambs are 4 days old and youngest triplets are 7 days old. This year we're going to go 4 x 5 days then 14 days for harness colors and start rotating when youngest lambs are 8 days old. Will have cows following ewes as cows mixed with ewes mis-mother lambs.

Not sure I'll have to see how it goes. I usually lamb in one field for a day and then try and move the unlambed ewes out leaving the lambed ones behind. The red bitch on my profile picture has gotten quite good at leaving lambed ewes behind. Then when the small lambs are old enough to walk a bit I try and shuffle them together. Usually so I can feed them with a snacker but I will try and start some sort of rotation with them as soon as possible.

@hendrebc you have done very well achieving that "magic day" balance so early (great term borrowed from our dairy brothers meaning supply matching demand). This means that your later spring flush of growth may take some controlling unless you have cattle following as @NZDan has or can conserve etc.
One thing sticks out like the proverbial dogs bo!!ocks, that is the opportunity to do something about those under performing fields mentioned (highlighted) above.
Before you rush in with all manner of machinery, try to work out why this so. Is it a problem with drainage/compaction, soil fertility/pH, lack of clover and or poor grass species etc.?
Programmes such as Farmax do identify those parts of the farm that are letting the side down as the season progresses. No season has as much affect on profit as spring feed availability, so they would be a priority to sort out in my assessment.
As you have the system worked out, I too suggest you try to shorten the set stocking period. Ram harness and crayons work very well. Also scanners can age foetuses quite well to help with separating later lambing ewes.

Sorry I haven't explained very well. The ones grazing now are only my twin and triplet scanned ewes. The singles are on some rough rented grazing off farm and will come back to lamb when I set stock the twins. The single scanned shearlings, in lamb hoggets (twin and triplets from those are already grazing with the ewes) and second cycle singles from the ewe mob will come off sacrifice fields and silage after 14-17 days whenever they start to lamb. I haven't counted the sacrifice fields in my growth calculations. Cattle will come out of the shed whenever I have enough grass to feed them. Demand should be about 20kg/DM/day when everything is grazing I think so magic day is a while off yet. But everything will happen quite quickly when it does.
Yes the best and worst performing fields are right next to each other so it's more than a little frustrating. I intend to go and dig some holes and do some soil tests to see what's what. One of the poor performing fields has responded quite well to some cattle muck I wanted rid of out of the shed on a frosty day so that's encouraging.
My plan to double stock numbers doesn't look so far off when you break it down and look at things like that. I grew 7tonnes of DM/ha last year. I'm sure I could get to 10t. The shocking thing was when I sat down with a consultant and worked it out I'd only utilised 4 tonnes of that DM last year there's a lot of untapped potential here.

 

[Woolless]

Not sure I'll have to see how it goes. I usually lamb in one field for a day and then try and move the unlambed ewes out leaving the lambed ones behind. The red bitch on my profile picture has gotten quite good at leaving lambed ewes behind. Then when the small lambs are old enough to walk a bit I try and shuffle them together. Usually so I can feed them with a snacker but I will try and start some sort of rotation with them as soon as possible.

Sorry I haven't explained very well. The ones grazing now are only my twin and triplet scanned ewes. The singles are on some rough rented grazing off farm and will come back to lamb when I set stock the twins. The single scanned shearlings, in lamb hoggets (twin and triplets from those are already grazing with the ewes) and second cycle singles from the ewe mob will come off sacrifice fields and silage after 14-17 days whenever they start to lamb. I haven't counted the sacrifice fields in my growth calculations. Cattle will come out of the shed whenever I have enough grass to feed them. Demand should be about 20kg/DM/day when everything is grazing I think so magic day is a while off yet. But everything will happen quite quickly when it does.
Yes the best and worst performing fields are right next to each other so it's more than a little frustrating. I intend to go and dig some holes and do some soil tests to see what's what. One of the poor performing fields has responded quite well to some cattle muck I wanted rid of out of the shed on a frosty day so that's encouraging.
My plan to double stock numbers doesn't look so far off when you break it down and look at things like that. I grew 7tonnes of DM/ha last year. I'm sure I could get to 10t. The shocking thing was when I sat down with a consultant and worked it out I'd only utilised 4 tonnes of that DM last year there's a lot of untapped potential here.

Sounds like you're headed in the right direction anyway