Wheat T1

If your “t0” has only been on a week I really wouldn’t be panicing or pushing on in less than ideal conditions ?

NIAB's advice is that the early part of the programme is designed around the T1 timing. I.e. they say that letting a late T0 push T1 into being late is the tail wagging the dog. Yes, T0 gives a bit of flexibility if delayed by necessity, but if the chance for the correct timing is there, they say take it. Forecast for the rest of the week and into next is wet. We've done 100ac this morning but stopping due to wind.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
NIAB's advice is that the early part of the programme is designed around the T1 timing. I.e. they say that letting a late T0 push T1 into being late is the tail wagging the dog. Forecast for the rest of the week and into next is wet. We've done 100ac this morning but stopping due to wind.

Far to windy here today but it sounds like crops are a week or so behind yours anyway

The late t0 is surely still protecting though if only a week old
 
Far to windy here today but it sounds like crops are a week or so behind yours anyway

The late t0 is surely still protecting though if only a week old

Will be protecting what it hit last time around, but the newly emerged stuff, whilst protected to an extent from splashing up the plant, won't be properly protected. If I'm right and L2 is poking out then we're late for T1 as it is. T0 was delayed by weather but we went on with it anyway largely to get the PGRs on. Quite a bit only had straight CTL.
 

Gong Farmer

Member
BASIS
Location
S E Glos
How big would you say the flag leaf should be now? With Skyfall I get a leaf that's nearly poking out, then a smaller one about 1-2cm long. In Santiago I easily found another smaller leaf of about 0.5cm size, but try as I might I could find no trace of the equivalent in Skyfall and Siskin.

With the 2cm leaf I try very carefully to unroll it but it often just detaches leaving the ear visible. Even then unrolling it in my fingers I can't see even a whiff of another leaf. As I said, very experienced agronomist said he found the same yesterday.

Edit to add: do you mean the current dissections are more likely to be right and it was the T0 timing that was wrong? I had slightly been following the NIAB local bulletins to guide me, thinking that our higher, heavier land must be later.

T0 was applied so what rate would you say was appropriate for Aviator? I was going off the medium risk heading in Strategies 4.
Flag leaf now 0.5-1.0 cm? If nothing else there in Siskin & Skyfall then that's it, very difficult now to get dissections wrong.

Aviator on Skyfall and Siskin - 0.8? Same OK on Santiago, (probably)
 

Gong Farmer

Member
BASIS
Location
S E Glos
Will be protecting what it hit last time around, but the newly emerged stuff, whilst protected to an extent from splashing up the plant, won't be properly protected. If I'm right and L2 is poking out then we're late for T1 as it is. T0 was delayed by weather but we went on with it anyway largely to get the PGRs on. Quite a bit only had straight CTL.
Delayed T0 allows flexibility in T1 timing to some extent so if L2 is poking out that's a bonus, not a problem.
 

Woodlander

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Leicestershire
Leaf 3 on average 50% emerged here. 2nd picture shows Evolution sown 10th October, with (top to bottom) leaf 4 emerged, leaf 3 50% emerged, leaf two around 50mm long and flag leaf around the ear. 1st picture shows flag leaf removed at around 5-6mm long.

First fungicide was last Thursday, 1l/ha Chlorothalonil when leaf 4 was fully emerged. 2nd fungicide will target leaf 3 fully emerged this year and I'll predict that will be early next week. Leaf 3 fungicide is usually around 23rd April on average here so around one week later than average. Flag leaf fungicide is usually around 20th May here and I'll predict crops will more or less catch up in terms of leaf emergence by then.

leaf 3 fungicide is probably going to be Tracker + an epoxiconazole top up + Chlorothalonil.
IMG_20180424_152143768.jpg
IMG_20180424_151835787.jpg
 
In the NIAB strategies 4 it ranks 0.8 l/ha Aviator + CTL in the same risk category as 60-90 g/ha epoxiconazole + CTL. The first choice is quite a bit more expensive than the second, but given they are in the same risk category, are they as good? (Hope I'm not divulging too much member content! Happy to take down if so.)
 

cricketandcrops

Member
BASIS
Location
Lincolnshire
Personally wouldn’t be cutting Aviator that much, what is it achieving? I am bound to be corrected by someone much more technical than me, however if cutting to 0.8 wouldn’t a full dose of epoxi+CTL before as well???

0.8 is a 64% dose, is this asking for trouble? Add in CTL cost is on par with 1.0 Aviator, full dose of epoxi + CTL quite a bit cheaper.
 

franklin

New Member
A litre of Aviator is £33. Those using it at T1 must be in the south west. Either way, it shapes up to be a dear fungicide program for them every year. There is sod all disease here in the supposedly-dry-but-actually-been-damned-wet east where crops have been slow to get moving. T1 will be end of next week. Mine will be:

1lt generic epoxi
The cheapest way of getting 500g CTL and some azoxystrobin.
1lt CCC
0.1 generic moddus.
Ooodles of cheap manganese
Some foliar gubbins we got cheap as it was the end of a run or something - foliar K and some stuff like copper and zinc.
generic starane as needed due to no spring Atlantis used.

So thats in my opinion a robust dose of three decent actives for a crop which has had a T0 and isnt carrying any disease and isnt forward or lush. Its only had T0 over a week ago and just had 2nd dose of N today which is about my normal schedue of 1/3 end March/April/May.

Tin hat - anyone, anywhere, not adding in a litre of Bravo is start raving bonkers.
 
A litre of Aviator is £33. Those using it at T1 must be in the south west. Either way, it shapes up to be a dear fungicide program for them every year. There is sod all disease here in the supposedly-dry-but-actually-been-damned-wet east where crops have been slow to get moving. T1 will be end of next week. Mine will be:

1lt generic epoxi
The cheapest way of getting 500g CTL and some azoxystrobin.
1lt CCC
0.1 generic moddus.
Ooodles of cheap manganese
Some foliar gubbins we got cheap as it was the end of a run or something - foliar K and some stuff like copper and zinc.
generic starane as needed due to no spring Atlantis used.

So thats in my opinion a robust dose of three decent actives for a crop which has had a T0 and isnt carrying any disease and isnt forward or lush. Its only had T0 over a week ago and just had 2nd dose of N today which is about my normal schedue of 1/3 end March/April/May.

Tin hat - anyone, anywhere, not adding in a litre of Bravo is start raving bonkers.

Does this mean you have now entered the building again?!

A number of questions, but one for starters: why 125 g/ha of epoxi? NIAB have as their range 60-90 g/ha. Does the extra buy you a lot more? Have just been rereading the NIAB work on triazole programmes over 2016-2017. Interesting reading.

Also, our crops have really started to motor. I am now decided that I have leaf 2 poking out on Skyfall. Picture with dog:
20180424_113743.jpg
 

Rob Holmes

Moderator
BASIS
I'm thinking 1 ltr Librax + 1 ltr CTL on 'good' wheats which had a T0

The really late drilled stuff hasn't had a T0, so thinking 1 ltr Gemstone (or equivalent) + 1 ltr CTL

Won't be ready for T1 for another fortnight yet
 

franklin

New Member
Does this mean you have now entered the building again?!

A number of questions, but one for starters: why 125 g/ha of epoxi? NIAB have as their range 60-90 g/ha. Does the extra buy you a lot more? Have just been rereading the NIAB work on triazole programmes over 2016-2017. Interesting reading.

Also, our crops have really started to motor. I am now decided that I have leaf 2 poking out on Skyfall. Picture with dog:
View attachment 663530

I'm milling around catching up on private messages. Your Skyfall is well ahead of my Lili, and I must say that my crops on ploughed land are roaring ahead of the min-till. All got a good slop of AD juice today to buck them up.

I am not a TAG member. But I am a firm believer of a good strong dose of chem. It wasnt long ago when a litre of Opus/Amistar/Bravo would have been considered the dogs rubbish for T1. Now, with generics, it is incredibly cheap. While these SDHI jobs may be "highly effective" they often come with, in my view, fairly mediocre levels of azoles. With the appearance of Elatus Era, and a move to Aviator at T1, what you will get for a sensible spend are two "highly effective" SDHIs and two fairly mediocre rates of azoles. And this is a marketing thing. I used to love Vertisan, as I could use it as I would use Amistar to mix in to my high-load azole mixes. In all the programs I have seen sugested by my agronomists they have implied I will get a good result from using tiny drops of azole. Also, I dont like the idea of using small doses of proline all the time:

For milling wheat how many will be using prothio at T1, T2 & T3? And at what doses? So by T3, assuming you buy the "rainsplash event" excitement in our part of the country, wont you have already selected out the nasties with your low levels of prothio?

Nah, I'll stick with T0 being Bravo, T1 being loads of epoxi, T2 being loads of protio, and T3 being some teb/metcon/prochloraz in big bucketfulls and sleep knowing I have used as good as full rates of chem.

Prothioconazole is everywhere, and as far as I know there is no new fancy azole arriving. So I can only wait to rejoice when it comes off-patent and I can stop feeling that the chem companies are enhancing my anal circumference by mixing all their SDHIs with prothio to dump piles of money towards Bayer. See comments on Siltra ad infinitum. Infact, I might try and get some Vertisan and swap that for the Amistar.
 
I'm milling around catching up on private messages. Your Skyfall is well ahead of my Lili, and I must say that my crops on ploughed land are roaring ahead of the min-till. All got a good slop of AD juice today to buck them up.

I am not a TAG member. But I am a firm believer of a good strong dose of chem. It wasnt long ago when a litre of Opus/Amistar/Bravo would have been considered the dogs rubbish for T1. Now, with generics, it is incredibly cheap. While these SDHI jobs may be "highly effective" they often come with, in my view, fairly mediocre levels of azoles. With the appearance of Elatus Era, and a move to Aviator at T1, what you will get for a sensible spend are two "highly effective" SDHIs and two fairly mediocre rates of azoles. And this is a marketing thing. I used to love Vertisan, as I could use it as I would use Amistar to mix in to my high-load azole mixes. In all the programs I have seen sugested by my agronomists they have implied I will get a good result from using tiny drops of azole. Also, I dont like the idea of using small doses of proline all the time:

For milling wheat how many will be using prothio at T1, T2 & T3? And at what doses? So by T3, assuming you buy the "rainsplash event" excitement in our part of the country, wont you have already selected out the nasties with your low levels of prothio?

Nah, I'll stick with T0 being Bravo, T1 being loads of epoxi, T2 being loads of protio, and T3 being some teb/metcon/prochloraz in big bucketfulls and sleep knowing I have used as good as full rates of chem.

Prothioconazole is everywhere, and as far as I know there is no new fancy azole arriving. So I can only wait to rejoice when it comes off-patent and I can stop feeling that the chem companies are enhancing my anal circumference by mixing all their SDHIs with prothio to dump piles of money towards Bayer. See comments on Siltra ad infinitum. Infact, I might try and get some Vertisan and swap that for the Amistar.

I think there is the common belief that higher doses are always better from a resistance management point of view. Started thinking about it here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/effect-of-fungicide-strategy-on-resistance.216744/. My understanding from that reading was that it isn't always the case that higher doses slow down the onset of resistance.

On mixtures, here's some bedtime reading: https://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/pdf/10.1094/PHYTO-04-14-0121-RVW.

On the hope that you'll get hold of prothio without having to pay Bayer and still have it work like new:

upload_2018-4-24_22-13-10.png
 

franklin

New Member
If you are curing septoria, then you have either got too much land / too small a sprayer, or ballsed something up. Suppose you could say given that pearl of wisdom them CTL should be all thats needed.............or that there is no need for an azole partner, given no-one really gives a flying one about resistance management for septoria given the method it spreads.

How do y'all like those cans of worms?!
 

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