Where am I going wrong ??

moretimeforgolf

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
North Kent, UK
I'm in my third season of no-till and I am plagued by slugs and snails. Others on this forum proclaim to hardly use any slug pellets whereas my use has rocketed this year!
Getting rape up and away was the first challenge - only used about 10kg/ha of sluxx ....a few small bare patches in the crop.
Then the fun began ...wheat after rape ....one field has had 25kg/ha of sluxx, and still i've lost a few patches!
Even wheat after spring beans required one trip out with the pelleter.
Now i've got spring barley following a cover crop. Having anticipated the worst, we applied 4kg of sluxx off the back of the drill ....I was out yesterday with another 5kg! This was drilled on the green ...apparently slugs eat the decaying cover crop before turning to your cash crop ...not my slugs, they go straight for seed hollowing!

I try to avoid rolling in a cereal crop because I fear that more grass weeds will grow ....perhaps this is where I'm going wrong?? I have been using sluxx instead of methaldehyde in an attempt to boost the beneficials eg.beetles, I'm not convinced that I've made the right choice.

How is everyone else getting on with slugs and snails? What can I do differently?
 

The_Swede

Member
Arable Farmer
Consolidation hugely important no matter what establishment system in my opinion. Regularly see headlands with massively less slug damage than centre of field.

Also OSR - only pellets i've used this year were in wheat following rape, the crop itself is a haven for them for nearly 12 months, then the residue following.
 

Ladybird

Member
Location
West Hendred
This is my first spring as a DD and have only planted my Spring beans so far. Have been closely looking at establishment and could not believe the amount of slugs present around the seed. Huge numbers.

I have pelleted it. Not necessarily for the beans but thought I have to keep numbers controlled for the following Wheat.

Walked out this morning Loads of dead slugs on surface.
 

moretimeforgolf

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
North Kent, UK
Yes, rolling seems to be part of the solution, however, we seem to have been in the situation where it has rained within 24 hours of drilling and I daren't go back in the field. I'm also doubting the effectiveness of slux ...and I don't like the price! My agronomist has suggested going back to methaldehyde but I have resisted so far.
 

The_Swede

Member
Arable Farmer
I know its comparatively expensive and due to different MOA you don't 'see' the death and destruction with the sluxx as per meta, I think it works equally well though. Might well be all that's available in the not too distant future anyway!
 

moretimeforgolf

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
North Kent, UK
I know its comparatively expensive and due to different MOA you don't 'see' the death and destruction with the sluxx as per meta, I think it works equally well though. Might well be all that's available in the not too distant future anyway!
I think you'll be proved right on that one, I just hope Europe sees sense and re-registers glyphosate !
 

The_Swede

Member
Arable Farmer
Yes, major problems for the direct drilling approach without that IMHO... gut feeling is pre-harvest use approvals will be radically restricted, perhaps tighter controls on total number of applications too but it will survive.
 
I think we need to seriously question this assertion (and it is just an assertion as far as I can see) that Sluxx is somehow kinder on non-target species. One counter assertion which I need to research is that the chelating agent used in Sluxx (I think it is anyway), EDTA, can be most toxic agent of the lot to non-target species.

Here's some food for thought: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...nticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

Key findings: the carabids investigated eating slugs exposed to metaldehyde did not obviously suffer from reduced lifespans (unlike methiocarb) - 2% mortality compared to 25% with methiocarb. Carabids eating slugs killed by metaldehyde fed longer on each slug. This behaviour may be explained by the reduction in mucus secretion (after the initially elevated levels) from these slugs. So, it may be that metaldehyde is allowing carabids to eat more than they otherwise would, but this might increase their metaldehyde exposure.

FWIW, we still use metaldehyde, expect for water quality reasons - i.e. on headlands and after the metaldehyde stewardship limit has been reached.
 
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Will7

Member
I have posted twice about my problem with slugs. They are now hollowing out the barley after spring beans. I just can't get mine to come to the surface to feed. Cultivation looks cheap compared to my pellet bill. I haven't lost the faith just yet
 

moretimeforgolf

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
North Kent, UK
It seems like you can't win either way! I've definitely seen dead beetles when use meta but then perhaps ferric phosphate also has its downside. Meta is cheaper and it's nice seeing all the dead slugs on the surface! We've had a mild winter which seems to exacerbate the problem - I don't think they ever stopped breeding.
 

Simon Chiles

DD Moderator
It seems like you can't win either way! I've definitely seen dead beetles when use meta but then perhaps ferric phosphate also has its downside. Meta is cheaper and it's nice seeing all the dead slugs on the surface! We've had a mild winter which seems to exacerbate the problem - I don't think they ever stopped breeding.

I suspect your plight is, as always, down to a combination of factors. Firstly you're probably not far enough into the game for the beneficials to have built up, combined with growing rape and a mild wet winter it's going to test the system to its limits. I've had great results with Sluxx and have effectively been weaned off generally using slug pellets, although not completely. I used them ( Sluxx ) because I felt they were better for the environment ( in particular water courses ) and used them at the first signs of damage, I think being proactive helps to reduce the problem. Whether or not Sluxx is better for beetles than metaldehyde I couldn't prove, my feeling is that it is, maybe it's just because we got on top of the situation quickly and didn't need much anyway. Of course it could also be just down to the weather at the time. Also importantly at the beginning for me we only had the original JD closing wheels that were completely useless at slot closing so we used to roll everything with the ring rolls with the levelling board down, sometimes twice, and since then we've sort of got into the habit which undoubtedly helps the situation.
 

Hobbit

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
South West
@moretimeforgolf I feel your pain as a 2nd year direct driller. Strip till rarther than no till. We are fighting a losing battle with slugs. They have started on some poor first wheats this week, never had a problem in winter crops in the following spring before. They eat the OSR, wheat, Spring barley but not blackgrass! Biggest problems are on the clay. We roll every thing but can't consolidate. A ring press has been surrgested. I was hoping that a move to no till might improve the slug problem or to give up growing OSR. Slowly losing faith
 

moretimeforgolf

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
North Kent, UK
Would it have been any different in a conventional scenario?
It depends on what you call conventional? Where I've used a carrier on tramlines in a rape stubble, those areas had far less slug damage in the following wheat. I believe that cover crops do create a green bridge for slugs, which appears to be far worse in a mild winter. Last year I destroyed my cover crops about 6 weeks prior to drilling s barley and I only had a small area affected by slugs, this year big trouble where I sprayed 48 hours before drilling.
 

SimonD

Member
Location
Dorset
By conventional I was referring to min-til. We're prone to slug damage but this year the damage has seen a reduction, it may have been less green around to keep them going? Maybe the destruction of covers well before the drill could be a factor to take forward, it's made me think now.
 

Hobbit

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
South West
I don't know if it would be better in a conventional system. I had less of a slug problem back then and my neighbours have some good bits of OSR about now. Before we had the sumo DTS we would establish OSR with an accord ts like @Badshot this worked well with far more even crops behind it and a good crop of OSR seems to have less slugs in the following wheat. Could this be a historic problem with some fields/soil types on my farm? Do cultivations bugger up the slugs life cycle long enough to get a crop established? I'm not planning to go back to conventional tillage, would move foreward to no till instead!
 

Simon Chiles

DD Moderator
I believe that cover crops do create a green bridge for slugs, which appears to be far worse in a mild winter. Last year I destroyed my cover crops about 6 weeks prior to drilling s barley and I only had a small area affected by slugs, this year big trouble where I sprayed 48 hours before drilling.

You're not comparing the same scenarios though. Last year we had a fairly cold and drier spring with some late frosts, I remember it well because it nearly wiped out my phacelia. This year being wetter and although not warm we haven't had any really hard frosts which must be more conducive to slugs.
 

willy

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Rutland
Yes slugs are a pain in the a$$. I start by pelleting the osr stubble a ASAP after combining, then always apply 4 kgs of cheap pellets at drilling. Then cross my fingers and keep a close watch..

The other main thing is to drill early in the autumn so crops get away from the slugs. And do the opposite in the spring.

It does get better but not a lot and a wet season is definitely a slug fest.....
 

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