Which farming organisations do “DEFRA” liaise with?

[Chris F]

So there isn't yet.

And it's only for those in the pilot and then only those that are TFF members, but neither of those two people actually know about it yet .

Hence why its called the SFI Pilot section. To get feedback and liaise with those on the pilot.

 

[Sid]

Hence why its called the SFI Pilot section. To get feedback and liaise with those on the pilot.

I look forward to my invite

 

[steveR]

I look forward to my invite

Don't forget the words of Marx, Groucho, not Karl.

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member". Make of this, what you will

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

"Ask me anything" isn't liasing, it is just answering questions isn't it?

How do we actually influence the SFI standards @JanetHughesDefra rather than ask how a particular standard works in relation to our farming practices.

I spent part of my weekend filling in the
"Defra Food and Farming Sectors and Trade Division stakeholder engagement – Sustainable Farming Incentive" form with suggestions with a deadline for submission

I don't see anything like this within TFF.
How do we as farmer actually properly officially engaged directly with our suggestions with Defra rather than ask a few questions for an hour.

Hi Sid,

We decided to do an 'ask me anything' format just to try out a way of engaging with people on the forum. I'm happy to try other ways, too, and am keen to hear views as well as answer questions.

Meanwhile anyone who would like to get involved in helping shape our future schemes can do so by following this link: https://defragroup.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_bxOSSCU0HOlkieG - we'll then invite you to get involved in co-design activities

If you expressed an interest in the pilot, you can also get involved through the pilot on a more ongoing basis.

We also publish regular updates on our blog and you can comment there, too - we read and reply to all comments: https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/

I'm also happy for you to contact me directly if you have views to share, and I can put you in touch with the right colleagues to talk to.

Thanks

Janet

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

A question I would like to ask if we're still allowed Janet, is.

Are you looking for a 5 year commitment scheme or will it be more flexible/annual arrangement?

As an example, say I was to plant a crop of maize for only 2 years and would like claim for a buffer along a margin. In year 3 I plant it back into grass and no longer want /need a buffer as there is less chance of any run off to worry about.

So is there scope to apply for the buffer strip annually rather than try to fix cropping plans in year zero of a 5 year scheme?

The benefit to the environment being that I do leave a buffer strip rather than plough up to the edge and don't leave a buffer as it was to awkward/restrictive to apply.

The plan is that it will be more flexible than a 5-year commitment to allow for you to do what makes sense on your farm over the period that makes sense. We're working on the best way to do this now and we will publish specifics on this in November, alongside the finalised standards and payment rates for the early rollout of sustainable farming incentive in 2022.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

She didn't respond to my questions .

I can't see any questions from you that I didn't answer Bobk - sorry if I've missed one, I'm happy to answer here if you had an outstanding question

 

[Vader]

@JanetHughesDefra
Could you explain what you mean by sustainable farming?
Is defra implying we are farming in a bad way?
I would think most uk farms are farmed in a good way to preserve the land as we want our family to keep farming after us.
What evidence is there we are destroying the land in the uk (and i mean in the uk, not the rest of the world. Also not evidence from groups who are anti farming and so biased)

I get tired of the way defra and co talk about us farmers, always sounds like you think we are a load of bumpkins who know sweet FA about how to farm property.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

When ELS came out I put all our scheme together and submitted it myself.
Countryside stewardship and SFI are too complicated. I haven’t got time to do it myself and I begrudge employing someone who is less qualified than I am to fill the forms up and charge me a significant sum for the privilege.
How many working hours do you think these schemes should take? Do you think it is acceptable that we should NEED agents etc to do this for us?

Hi there. No, I don't think it's acceptable that you should need agents to fill the forms in for you for schemes like SFI. You might want to take professional advice on what particular options and standards might be appropriate on your farm, which is your choice, but the forms should be self-service and the standards straightforward for anyone to understand and apply.

We have a team working to make SFI as simple as possible ahead of its early rollout next year, and we're very carefully and thoroughly reviewing the feedback we've had about the pilot application process to inform that. If you'd like to help us test our new forms and systems as we develop them, please get in touch - the more critical farmer eyes on it, the better we can make it.

 

[Hampton]

Hi there. No, I don't think it's acceptable that you should need agents to fill the forms in for you for schemes like SFI. You might want to take professional advice on what particular options and standards might be appropriate on your farm, which is your choice, but the forms should be self-service and the standards straightforward for anyone to understand and apply.

We have a team working to make SFI as simple as possible ahead of its early rollout next year, and we're very carefully and thoroughly reviewing the feedback we've had about the pilot application process to inform that. If you'd like to help us test our new forms and systems as we develop them, please get in touch - the more critical farmer eyes on it, the better we can make it.

I hope so

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Hi there. No, I don't think it's acceptable that you should need agents to fill the forms in for you for schemes like SFI. You might want to take professional advice on what particular options and standards might be appropriate on your farm, which is your choice, but the forms should be self-service and the standards straightforward for anyone to understand and apply.

We have a team working to make SFI as simple as possible ahead of its early rollout next year, and we're very carefully and thoroughly reviewing the feedback we've had about the pilot application process to inform that. If you'd like to help us test our new forms and systems as we develop them, please get in touch - the more critical farmer eyes on it, the better we can make it.

I suspect there is a disconnect in play here because farmers may look at the application process differently to those in DEFRA creating the application process. As a farmer, I read the standards and levels thinking "how would that affect the way we farm here and what would have to change". In the process of thinking that through I'd raise lots of questions around exactly what is meant by phrases in each level. This could understandably be missed by non- farmers looking at the process.

 

[Sid]

Hi Sid,

We decided to do an 'ask me anything' format just to try out a way of engaging with people on the forum. I'm happy to try other ways, too, and am keen to hear views as well as answer questions.

Meanwhile anyone who would like to get involved in helping shape our future schemes can do so by following this link: https://defragroup.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_bxOSSCU0HOlkieG - we'll then invite you to get involved in co-design activities

If you expressed an interest in the pilot, you can also get involved through the pilot on a more ongoing basis.

We also publish regular updates on our blog and you can comment there, too - we read and reply to all comments: https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/

I'm also happy for you to contact me directly if you have views to share, and I can put you in touch with the right colleagues to talk to.

Thanks

Janet

Thank you for the reply.

Many people have questions but it's the co design that to me is the most important part and no doubt many others.

Earned recognition for organic is also key to me, it happen in BPS with greening and also in OELS.
Organic has a track record of hitting the key targets that Defra have set.

On the SFI pilot I have been in discussions with other organic farmers and the relationship between existing CSS and the SFI pilot.
I have been accepted to the pilot, my CSS finishes in December but I only have the organic maintenance option selected on all my parcels.
Yet I know of other in a similar position who have not been selected.
I also have the option of a CSS mirroring agreement starting in January 2022.

If it does, how does the CSS organic maintenance payment conflict with the SFI pilots , i can't see how it can as its not dual funding in anyway.
Worryingly two farmers in the same position have already had two different answers from your department to the question can they apply for the SFI pilot.

Look forward to your response.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

@JanetHughesDefra
Could you explain what you mean by sustainable farming?
Is defra implying we are farming in a bad way?
I would think most uk farms are farmed in a good way to preserve the land as we want our family to keep farming after us.
What evidence is there we are destroying the land in the uk (and i mean in the uk, not the rest of the world. Also not evidence from groups who are anti farming and so biased)

I get tired of the way defra and co talk about us farmers, always sounds like you think we are a load of bumpkins who know sweet FA about how to farm property.

Hi Vader

We certainly don't think that, or that you're farming in a bad way. And we know that many farmers are already farming sustainably.

What we mean by sustainable farming is that farmers have thriving, profitable businesses that produce public goods alongside food and other agricultural produce. Those public goods are things that the food market doesn't pay for such as habitat creation and maintenance, carbon sequestration and high animal welfare (beyond baseline regulatory requirements).

Of course, many farmers are already doing these things - our plan is to reward those who are already producing public goods and incentivise many more farmers to do so as well. We will do this by paying farmers to take actions to produce public goods on your land, and making it both straightforward and financially viable for you to do that.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

I suspect there is a disconnect in play here because farmers may look at the application process differently to those in DEFRA creating the application process. As a farmer, I read the standards and levels thinking "how would that affect the way we farm here and what would have to change". In the process of thinking that through I'd raise lots of questions around exactly what is meant by phrases in each level. This could understandably be missed by non- farmers looking at the process.

Yes, I think that's bang on, absolutely right. We've been testing the draft standards for next year's SFI rollout with farmers over the summer for exactly that reason, and are updating them to reflect the feedback we've received. I hope you'll see clearly when we publish the updated standards in November that we've done that. We'll keep doing that from now on, so we can keep on improving things as we go and make everything as clear and workable as possible for as many farmers as possible.

If you'd be up for looking at draft standards for us and telling us what makes sense and what needs improving, please do get in touch - the more farmers review and give us feedback, the more we can make things better.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Thank you for the reply.

Many people have questions but it's the co design that to me is the most important part and no doubt many others.

Earned recognition for organic is also key to me, it happen in BPS with greening and also in OELS.
Organic has a track record of hitting the key targets that Defra have set.

On the SFI pilot I have been in discussions with other organic farmers and the relationship between existing CSS and the SFI pilot.
I have been accepted to the pilot, my CSS finishes in December but I only have the organic maintenance option selected on all my parcels.
Yet I know of other in a similar position who have not been selected.
I also have the option of a CSS mirroring agreement starting in January 2022.

If it does, how does the CSS organic maintenance payment conflict with the SFI pilots , i can't see how it can as its not dual funding in anyway.
Worryingly two farmers in the same position have already had two different answers from your department to the question can they apply for the SFI pilot.

Look forward to your response.

Thanks Sid.

We're looking at earned recognition for organic (and other schemes eg LEAF) - we've done some initial analysis and are now going to look at how it might work in practice with some of our pilot participants. We have a way to go yet but are working on it and talking with the schemes about it in detail. We'll publish updates on this work on our blog, if you'd like to keep informed.

I'm interested to know more about the people who haven't been accepted onto the pilot - I'm sorry to hear they've had conflicting answers. If you can put them in touch with me I'd be happy to ask my colleagues to look into this. My email is [email protected].

 

[DRC]

Hi Vader

We certainly don't think that, or that you're farming in a bad way. And we know that many farmers are already farming sustainably.

What we mean by sustainable farming is that farmers have thriving, profitable businesses that produce public goods alongside food and other agricultural produce. Those public goods are things that the food market doesn't pay for such as habitat creation and maintenance, carbon sequestration and high animal welfare (beyond baseline regulatory requirements).

Of course, many farmers are already doing these things - our plan is to reward those who are already producing public goods and incentivise many more farmers to do so as well. We will do this by paying farmers to take actions to produce public goods on your land, and making it both straightforward and financially viable for you to do that.

What Defra need to understand is that things like no till don’t suit every farm. I plough which in my opinion gives me better crops ( more food for the public), but I have a good rotation including grass and turnips for livestock , and use manures responsibly ( negating the need for as much synthetic fertiliser). We have mikes of hedges, ponds etc.
But, I feel demonised because I use a plough, whereas I’ve seen plenty of no till farms that have poor crops and are now trying to take the moral high ground despite the fact their way of farming in many cases has led to black grass and poor rotation.

 

[Vader]

Hi Vader

We certainly don't think that, or that you're farming in a bad way. And we know that many farmers are already farming sustainably.

What we mean by sustainable farming is that farmers have thriving, profitable businesses that produce public goods alongside food and other agricultural produce. Those public goods are things that the food market doesn't pay for such as habitat creation and maintenance, carbon sequestration and high animal welfare (beyond baseline regulatory requirements).

Of course, many farmers are already doing these things - our plan is to reward those who are already producing public goods and incentivise many more farmers to do so as well. We will do this by paying farmers to take actions to produce public goods on your land, and making it both straightforward and financially viable for you to do that.

We can grow food in the market place better if you would lead an investigation into the cartel Red Tractor that stops us having fair market access.

I think most will agree, once hls/els got its problems sorted out, it worked OK, did for us. Why not save all the money defra wasting on elms research and just tweak whats already up and running.

Hard to take the carbon sequestration thing serious when it's known pasture land is better than trees at it, yet the gov does nothing to stop the demonisation of eating meat and wants to plant loads of trees. Most animals have high welfare, unhappy animals dont grow well and so cost money.

The habitat creation is also never going to get the target species back up as groups like packhams lot are against culling predators that are wiping the rare stuff out. No matter how much habitat you have, if it has a overbearing amount of predators, then the rare species will never recover. Most predators now can keep their population high by feeding on road kill, rubbish and people feeding them.
The rare species are more specialised and can not do the same.
Examples,
We had high numbers of lapwings on our farm. Now large numbers of buzzard have moved in, they hardly ever manage to rear a chick and numbers are dropping.

Uk hedgehog populations are dropping, as their main predator, badger, numbers climb. We have good population of hedgehogs as we have no badgers.

The whole food/nature/environment balance is not that hard. Just any gov in power is to scared of the green vote to sort it. Instead they spend hundreds of millions on schemes like elms that won't get the desired result in the end.

 

[Steevo]

We can grow food in the market place better if you would lead an investigation into the cartel Red Tractor that stops us having fair market access.

I think most will agree, once hls/els got its problems sorted out, it worked OK, did for us. Why not save all the money defra wasting on elms research and just tweak whats already up and running.

Hard to take the carbon sequestration thing serious when it's known pasture land is better than trees at it, yet the gov does nothing to stop the demonisation of eating meat and wants to plant loads of trees. Most animals have high welfare, unhappy animals dont grow well and so cost money.

The habitat creation is also never going to get the target species back up as groups like packhams lot are against culling predators that are wiping the rare stuff out. No matter how much habitat you have, if it has a overbearing amount of predators, then the rare species will never recover. Most predators now can keep their population high by feeding on road kill, rubbish and people feeding them.
The rare species are more specialised and can not do the same.
Examples,
We had high numbers of lapwings on our farm. Now large numbers of buzzard have moved in, they hardly ever manage to rear a chick and numbers are dropping.

Uk hedgehog populations are dropping, as their main predator, badger, numbers climb. We have good population of hedgehogs as we have no badgers.

The whole food/nature/environment balance is not that hard. Just any gov in power is to scared of the green vote to sort it. Instead they spend hundreds of millions on schemes like elms that won't get the desired result in the end.

Nail on the head!

 

[steveR]

The habitat creation is also never going to get the target species back up as groups like packhams lot are against culling predators that are wiping the rare stuff out. No matter how much habitat you have, if it has a overbearing amount of predators, then the rare species will never recover. Most predators now can keep their population high by feeding on road kill, rubbish and people feeding them.
The rare species are more specialised and can not do the same.
Examples,
We had high numbers of lapwings on our farm. Now large numbers of buzzard have moved in, they hardly ever manage to rear a chick and numbers are dropping.

Uk hedgehog populations are dropping, as their main predator, badger, numbers climb. We have good population of hedgehogs as we have no badgers.

The whole food/nature/environment balance is not that hard. Just any gov in power is to scared of the green vote to sort it. Instead they spend hundreds of millions on schemes like elms that won't get the desired result in the end.

Bang on the money!

I am pretty sure any Farmer who is interested in the wildlife on their farm will tell the same story, from real experience, of uncontrolled predator numbers leading to huge reductions in other species.

 

[JP1]

Bang on the money!

I am pretty sure any Farmer who is interested in the wildlife on their farm will tell the same story, from real experience, of uncontrolled predator numbers leading to huge reductions in other species.

One of the most soul destroying things this Summer while checking cattle was passing the same open fallow field with lots of lovely plovers sheltering their chicks from the heat and trying to stop predation and seagulls and buzzards everywhere just picking them off. Of course I'm sure the NGO's will still blame the evil farmer and his "chemicals"

 

[steveR]

One of the most soul destroying things this Summer while checking cattle was passing the same open fallow field with lots of lovely plovers sheltering their chicks from the heat and trying to stop predation and seagulls and buzzards everywhere just picking them off. Of course I'm sure the NGO's will still blame the evil farmer and his "chemicals"

Saw the same here with 2 breeding pairs of Peewits, one pair raised 4 that I saw, but they got them into the longer cover and then into the neighbouring Bumblebird.

However, I got the marauding Carrion crows... at last! Rifle, because as soon as they saw a shotgun.... whoosh, Gone!