Which is better? Organic or Regenerative produced food?

[Yale]

So, things have changed a little, organic is the old school, flat cap wearing, tweed kinda feel. Regenerative is the new kid on the block, rather edgy, slick style but promising a down to earth feel. So in the marketing eyes of the British Retail Consortium who are they going to run with? Who are the consumer going to be attracted to and which is best for the environment?

 

[organicguy]

I fear ReGen will become the new Red Tractor standard, ie the base that all companies want but at no premium.

 

[delilah]

which is best for the environment?

Neither. Because all of the damage is the other side of the farm gate. Nobody is telling me that an 'organic' or 'regenerative' egg that has travelled 1000 miles from hen to plate, is better for the environment than a bog standard egg that has travelled 10 miles.

 

[Wood field]

I don’t think there’s much to fear with regen, personally I think it’s pretty much old fashioned farming , certainly on our small ish hill farm, surely good soils are what we all want anyway.
Quick question re organic, how do you deal with parasites on sheep, ie scab, fluke etc etc

 

[delilah]

So in the marketing eyes of the British Retail Consortium who are they going to run with?

And that's the crux of it. Any farmer who allows themselves to be (ab)used by the cartel through having their mug shot used in store to sell the lie that a centralized food system is sustainable, is part of the problem not part of the solution. Tell them to do one.

 

[Yale]

I fear ReGen will become the new Red Tractor standard, ie the base that all companies want but at no premium.

That’s an interesting perspective. So regenerative may be hijacked by supermarkets with them deciding if you meet their criteria. However this approach goes against what regenerative may mean

 

[Bury the Trash]

how do you deal with parasites on sheep, ie scab, fluke etc etc

ok to use if needed/derogations / long withdrawal periods

bit of a racket really.

 

[soapsud]

So, things have changed a little, organic is the old school, flat cap wearing, tweed kinda feel. Regenerative is the new kid on the block, rather edgy, slick style but promising a down to earth feel. So in the marketing eyes of the British Retail Consortium who are they going to run with? Who are the consumer going to be attracted to and which is best for the environment?

Organic uses more diesel, more tillage and more labour to compensate for no chems.
Regen uses less diesel than conventional arable.

Organic sells less than 5% of all UK produce.
Regen based cropping produces and sells more.

Therefore Regen will be favoured by the Retailers

 

[egbert]

So, things have changed a little, organic is the old school, flat cap wearing, tweed kinda feel. Regenerative is the new kid on the block, rather edgy, slick style but promising a down to earth feel. So in the marketing eyes of the British Retail Consortium who are they going to run with? Who are the consumer going to be attracted to and which is best for the environment?

more to the point...who are these clever tailors, who keep selling the emperor a magical new suit?

 

[teslacoils]

Neither. The best is having a mixture of profitable systems that allow land owners to pursue the best returns and where customers have a reasonable choice.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Regen uses less diesel than conventional arable.

hmm.

regen is direct drilling is it

if so

Who's bottled it ?

How many dd guys have gone cultivating? Out next door neighbours practices a full range of cultivating and has 95% crop cover after a hard winter we dd a majority of ours and a currently re drilling 50% .cultivating a fair bit as the top is solid from rain. Any one else feal like abandoning...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

and dont forget the roundup use

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Organic is a method of producing less food but feeling that it will be better for you.

Regenerative is what most mixed farmers have practised for years and will certainly have a greater output at a lower cost.

 

[egbert]

Neither. Because all of the damage is the other side of the farm gate. Nobody is telling me that an 'organic' or 'regenerative' egg that has travelled 1000 miles from hen to plate, is better for the environment than a bog standard egg that has travelled 10 miles.

That again? What fantasy world do you live in?
We (collectively) burn diesel, we buy big shiny lumps of iron forged in far away countries, we use tonnes of plastic, we squidge nitrogen into fertiliser using natural gas.....we do all kinds of unsustainable sh1t.

Which is best? was the OP question, and then it looks like 'which is more profitable to me while the gravy train is arollin?' is the underlying real question.

 

[Wood field]

hmm.

regen is direct drilling is it

if so

Who's bottled it ?

How many dd guys have gone cultivating? Out next door neighbours practices a full range of cultivating and has 95% crop cover after a hard winter we dd a majority of ours and a currently re drilling 50% .cultivating a fair bit as the top is solid from rain. Any one else feal like abandoning...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

and dont forget the roundup use

Good point , as a hill farmer, I’ve never really followed arable practices, only what I occasionally see on tff
The use of roundup etc didn’t really twig with me .
At the end of the day we can only do the best with what we have, be it re seeds every 3 years or whatever , dd min till etc
Sometimes I get a bit frustrated with p poor old permanent pastures, but it’s bloody simple compared to the guys growing crops

 

[Bald Rick]

Mixed farming is the answer. Doesn't need fancy non names

 

[Yale]

That again? What fantasy world do you live in?
We (collectively) burn diesel, we buy big shiny lumps of iron forged in far away countries, we use tonnes of plastic, we squidge nitrogen into fertiliser using natural gas.....we do all kinds of unsustainable sh1t.

Which is best? was the OP question, and then it looks like 'which is more profitable to me while the gravy train is arollin?' is the underlying real question.

The reason I posed the question is because there is no correct answer. The point could be how regenerative and organic mean different things depending where you are in the supply chain.

 

[soapsud]

hmm.

regen is direct drilling is it

if so

Who's bottled it ?

How many dd guys have gone cultivating? Out next door neighbours practices a full range of cultivating and has 95% crop cover after a hard winter we dd a majority of ours and a currently re drilling 50% .cultivating a fair bit as the top is solid from rain. Any one else feal like abandoning...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

and dont forget the roundup use

Regen is partly about working with natural systems to grow food and raise animals. Sometimes that means a few more weeds and a little less steel so yes it can mean DD.

Personally I'm pro-chem, reduced cultivation where possible whilst being guided by nature. It's not difficult to understand when you're a livestock bod.

The arable boys stuck in their steel and glass A/C bubbles have a different take that's all.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Mixed farming is the answer. Doesn't need fancy non names

some people think it it does as seen here

Groundswell a bit pricey?

Got the email saying Groundswell tickets are on sale. Been to it since the start, but £250 for 2 days entry and camping is a bit on the steep side. Much though I love going probably going to give it a miss this year.

thefarmingforum.co.uk

they seem to thinkj i t needs complicated explanations that ordinary people don t really un derstand, well complicated explanations make those saying them look clever and cool i guess, and if you arent one of them cool kids or pander to them no like s for you im afraid.

ploughing is no worse for the world than a fancy car owned and driven. or a luxury flight flight on a n airoplane

like the old jimmy cliff song i can see clearly now the wool is removed from my eyes shedders help with that lol

all processes allowed in my book pick the best suited to your system and farm no bias no farty ness trend setting or snobish ness either or loss of old ideas just because dad did them

nothing to sell on my part either im no consultant.

 

[Hindsight]

So, things have changed a little, organic is the old school, flat cap wearing, tweed kinda feel. Regenerative is the new kid on the block, rather edgy, slick style but promising a down to earth feel. So in the marketing eyes of the British Retail Consortium who are they going to run with? Who are the consumer going to be attracted to and which is best for the environment?

BRC will run with both provided it is profitable for them to do so. As for suppliers that is their individual choice But that choice will to varying degrees be affected by their customers, the BRC members, requests, demands and pricing. Oh and what government wants or wishes to encourage. As always. Hey Ho.

 

[soapsud]

That again? What fantasy world do you live in?
We (collectively) burn diesel, we buy big shiny lumps of iron forged in far away countries, we use tonnes of plastic, we squidge nitrogen into fertiliser using natural gas.....we do all kinds of unsustainable sh1t.

Which is best? was the OP question, and then it looks like 'which is more profitable to me while the gravy train is arollin?' is the underlying real question.

It's like Yale asking us which is brighter a candle or the sun and being told that mushrooms grow best in the dark and fed BS.