Which sprayers nozzles?

[DrWazzock]

I asked the storeman what everybody else buys and he said flat fan VP110, pick your size.

 

[Just a farmer]

I did a lot of the pre-ems this year on the wheat with either the defy 3d035 at 140l/ha or the TTI05 nozzle at 200l/ha when the wind got up. My home made clod pictures are in the quote below.

I've been using 035 Defy 3d nozzles @ 140l/ha travelling at 10-12km/h this season when conditions allow as I find this rate provides a good intermedium between good coverage and good workrate.

That being said this is my first season owning a set of Teejet TTI 110-05 and due to drift concerns I think well over half my acreage has been done with these nozzles. I think they are a great nozzle for stopping drift and getting the product on in a timely fashion but I do find myself being skeptical over how well they will perform.

Has anyone else used these this season? Did anyone use them last season? How did they perform?

Below is my highly scientific coverage experiment of a clod wrapped in a piece of paper comparing the Defy 3d with the TTI. No guesses which is which.

I've since found that the amount of blackgrass in the TTI fields has been significantly worse which I attribute to a mixture of the reduced coverage aided with the dry conditions at time of application.

I still think the TTI have a place for allowing me to cover my acreage when the wind won't give up but in a dry year similar to the one we've just had I think I'll avoid using them and just work through the night instead.

 

[Matt77]

No trials as such, but in similar situations got worse results, nothing technical. Also looking at how it comes out the nozzle, it’s like someone spitting beer at a football match! Not great for coverage.

Wrongly or rightly I’ve got two ULD 025 in dual caps doing 200l/ha for pre ems, I put paper down and tried my 04 guardian airs at 200, my 025 at 100 forward and back and the setup I’ve gone with, clear winner for me, hence I’ve stuck with them. I’m only a small farm too so I can afford to go slowly too.

 

[Brisel]

I have 025 Bubblejets in angled caps for work up to stem extension. Guardian Airs for work in an extending crop at 3 bar. If the wind gets up, at least I can slow down to 2 bar for 75% drift reduction. BFS Exrays for 90% drift reduction.

 

[Beefbullock]

Have you ever tried Guardian airs at 4 bar. How do they compare to Flat fans at say 2-3 bar

 

[Brisel]

Have you ever tried Guardian airs at 4 bar. How do they compare to Flat fans at say 2-3 bar

As pressure increases, the spray gets finer. At least with GAs you can slow down and reduce pressure to get the 75% drift reduction LERAP *** rating. IIRC at 3 bar they are 50% drift reduction LERAP ** rating vs a flat fan. I don't know about 4 bar - this is the kind of thing @SimpersTradeCounter is an expert on.

 

[SimpersTradeCounter]

Guardian Air have good intentions. They are characteristically similar to the BFS Bubble jet droplet spectrum wise
Unfortunately they are angled, which contrary to what many believe does not increase penetration / coverage at all. In fact it reduces coverage significantly when used alone and not in conjunction with a "straight" down facing nozzle.
QA is not a strong point either and you will most certainly get streaky spray patterns (from my experience) with them. The BFS bubble jet is therefore the nozzle I would advise in many applications as it is extremely versatile in its ability to make a spray day viable. I have over 20 years experience watching nozzle types come and go in this industry and would not push a particular nozzle if I didn't believe in it

 

[Brisel]

So, do rearward facing Guardian Air/Amistar nozzles not actually get any more spray on the front face of the leaf or ear, in your experience?

 

[Jo28]

we have defy, VP flat fan and 025 guardian air. used the defy for all pre-ems last back end then switched to flat fan until T2 and the switched to the guardians, however our T2 didnt seem as good as expected and let some yellow rust in and so switched back to defy. i was told at cereals that defy jets are no good other than on bare soils. so was recently debating whether or not to switch and buy a new set of jets but unsure where to go????????

 

[Brisel]

Flat fans are technically the best but efficacy soon drops with any wind as drift starts. As above, I run air inclusion nozzles of various sizes, angles and pressures according to what I’m trying to hit and how windy it is.

 

[SimpersTradeCounter]

Flat fans are the best bar none IF the weather permits. After that BFS Bubble jets are the superior AI, the reason is that they are NOT SUPER COARSE. You can manipulate the droplet based upon your pressure depending upon your conditions.
Still day (perfect spray day) = 3-4 bar etc. minimal drift because Air induction and its a low wind day
Mildly windy day (typical spray day) = 2 bar slow down minimal drift as it is 3 star rated at this pressure

They also have the best wearing capabilities of all plastic in my experience with good QC, if when tested (and they are tested) they are streaky or poor quality. They are chipped and recycled.

 

[snarling bee]

We used to use 03 BBJs at 4-5 bar 130l/ha. seemed to work ok. Now use 03 FF110 at 3 bar 100l/ha and seem to work ok. I should probably use 025 BBJs at 4-5 bar at 100l/ha.
After a bad experience with forward and backward nozzles they are a definite No No for me. At 14/16 kph I just don't see the point. At 8 kph with no wind then perhaps.

 

[Brisel]

We used to use 03 BBJs at 4-5 bar 130l/ha. seemed to work ok. Now use 03 FF110 at 3 bar 100l/ha and seem to work ok. I should probably use 025 BBJs at 4-5 bar at 100l/ha.
After a bad experience with forward and backward nozzles they are a definite No No for me. At 14/16 kph I just don't see the point. At 8 kph with no wind then perhaps.

What was the bad experience please? Poor control of the target weed?

I agree that at higher forward speeds throwing a spray pattern backwards is harder. The speed itself can create a vortex and drift but a degree of swirl does help deposition.

 

[traineefarmer]

We've been using Hypro Lo-drift flat fans at rates of 100 - 150 L/ha for donkey's years - a legacy of my father "the're the best and that's that" but now that I have more control over decision making, I've been spending some time and effort upgrading our spray system. Bigger sprayer, experiments with adjuvants and conditioners, better timings, but up to now I've stuck with my father's nozzle and rate choices.

I read the Pro Operator article and it got me thinking about the importance of nozzles and rates. Our agronimist is a big believer in very low dose rates - less than 100L/Ha, but I don't want to run small orifice nozzles with powders and beet sprays, so I'm thinking of an 025 @ ~ 110L/ha.

Also our sprayer doesn't have rotating nozzle holders so change overs can be a pain and we only farm 110Ha so the cost per Ha of buying 3 different types of nozzle for a 20m sprayer is harder to justify, so ideally I'm looking for a one size fits all compromise.

I'm looking at trying Hypro Guardian Air to fit the bill. I know they won't be ideal for pre-ems but overall I hope they will be better than the old tech Lo-drifts for everything else.

I'd love to hear your thoughs...

 

[snarling bee]

We sprayed glypho on fallow and there was a narrow missed strip every metre. I think a side breeze was catching the rear facing nozzles.

I think it is wrong to use the same type of nozzle alternating both downward facing and either back or forward. The patterns will never match. You need possibly 110 degree down and 80 degree angled, even then it is hit and miss. In an ideal world i.e. no wind, perfect boom height and stability, and at a set speed, then possibly forward and back will give improved deposition; but in the conditions I farm in, a line of straight down nozzles works best IMO.
25cm spacing is a different scenario.

 

[Brisel]

We sprayed glypho on fallow and there was a narrow missed strip every metre. I think a side breeze was catching the rear facing nozzles.

I think it is wrong to use the same type of nozzle alternating both downward facing and either back or forward. The patterns will never match. You need possibly 110 degree down and 80 degree angled, even then it is hit and miss. In an ideal world i.e. no wind, perfect boom height and stability, and at a set speed, then possibly forward and back will give improved deposition; but in the conditions I farm in, a line of straight down nozzles works best IMO.
25cm spacing is a different scenario.

What was the boom height that gave the missed strips? Above 35cm on 110 degree nozzles you’re into overlap and the backward facing ones achieve overlap sooner. I’d be put off by an experience like that.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen perfect spraying conditions! With 36m booms, undulating ground and non Horsch boom auto control that’s never going to happen anyway, even at 10-12kph.

 

[SimpersTradeCounter]

We've been using Hypro Lo-drift flat fans at rates of 100 - 150 L/ha for donkey's years - a legacy of my father "the're the best and that's that" but now that I have more control over decision making, I've been spending some time and effort upgrading our spray system. Bigger sprayer, experiments with adjuvants and conditioners, better timings, but up to now I've stuck with my father's nozzle and rate choices.

I read the Pro Operator article and it got me thinking about the importance of nozzles and rates. Our agronimist is a big believer in very low dose rates - less than 100L/Ha, but I don't want to run small orifice nozzles with powders and beet sprays, so I'm thinking of an 025 @ ~ 110L/ha.

Also our sprayer doesn't have rotating nozzle holders so change overs can be a pain and we only farm 110Ha so the cost per Ha of buying 3 different types of nozzle for a 20m sprayer is harder to justify, so ideally I'm looking for a one size fits all compromise.

I'm looking at trying Hypro Guardian Air to fit the bill. I know they won't be ideal for pre-ems but overall I hope they will be better than the old tech Lo-drifts for everything else.

I'd love to hear your thoughs...

Advice is a dirty word in this job so I won't patronise you, but I will say to you what I have already said in this thread. BFS Bubble jets will serve you better and for longer than GAs. Plus in addition to what you said about the low Drift jets your dad preferred to use were an excellent choice back then. Todays equivalent is the Bubble Jet only that much better

 

[DrWazzock]

I find pressure is more critical than nozzle type. If I don't exceed 2 bar with simple flat fans I don't get much drift.

My favourite setting at the moment is 04's at 2 bar 8 k giving me nearly 200 litres per ha. This way I saunter up to the poles rather than whack them as I hit the windscreen.

Thinking of buying a set of 05's so I can travel a bit faster for Autumn preems.

We used to run bubble jets. Very good for drift control but not so good for small targets and even coverage. I think a lot of blackgrass control went pear shaped at the time low drift nozzles were all the rage. It did here anyway.

 

[An Gof]

we have defy, VP flat fan and 025 guardian air. used the defy for all pre-ems last back end then switched to flat fan until T2 and the switched to the guardians, however our T2 didnt seem as good as expected and let some yellow rust in and so switched back to defy. i was told at cereals that defy jets are no good other than on bare soils. so was recently debating whether or not to switch and buy a new set of jets but unsure where to go????????

I’m using Defy 3D nozzles alternating forward and back from autumn pre-em up to and including T1 and then change to Guardian Air for the rest of the season. Not had any problems or issues so far.

 

[traineefarmer]

Advice is a dirty word in this job so I won't patronise you, but I will say to you what I have already said in this thread. BFS Bubble jets will serve you better and for longer than GAs. Plus in addition to what you said about the low Drift jets your dad preferred to use were an excellent choice back then. Todays equivalent is the Bubble Jet only that much better

Thanks, that's good to know.

On the BFS jets, I had a look at their website and product range. Are you referring to the old original BJ as they seem to another version now.