Who gives a flying feck whether Starmer had a beer?

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
Another fundamental issue is that German unions and British unions are almost polar opposites. In the main, British unions (GMB and Unite in particular) are living in some 70's timewarp where they're still driven by a far left/class war ideology, whereas German unions are a lot more pragmatic and forward thinking and far less political.
Another fundamental issue is that German management and British management are almost polar opposites. In the main, British management are living in some 70's timewarp where they're still driven by a far right/class war ideology, whereas German management are a lot more pragmatic and forward thinking and far less political.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
A gross oversimplification giving a false impression. There isn't just one board of directors in a German business. There's two, the supervisory board and a management board. Worker representation is solely on the supervisory board (in those companies where it's required, which is just a small minority of businesses) and can be outvoted every single time as it's constituted in such a way that union types can never, with the exception of those businesses in the steel industry, outvote the regular directors. In other words, if they're not constructive they'll not achieve anything as they'll be outvoted every time.

Another fundamental issue is that German unions and British unions are almost polar opposites. In the main, British unions (GMB and Unite in particular) are living in some 70's timewarp where they're still driven by a far left/class war ideology, whereas German unions are a lot more pragmatic and forward thinking and far less political.
So you admit that unions are necessary
And beneficial
Too many companies in uk are run for short term gain by greedy boards who just want as big a bonus as possible and to hell with the workers RBS being the biggest worst example
Union reps on the board would help stop that.
 

Swarfmonkey

Member
Location
Hampshire
Another fundamental issue is that German management and British management are almost polar opposites. In the main, British management are living in some 70's timewarp where they're still driven by a far right/class war ideology, whereas German management are a lot more pragmatic and forward thinking and far less political.

I'll go with that to a point, but not driven by politics. Successive British governments constantly buggering around with everything from legislation to investment allowances (ask someone who runs a small business in the UK about how the AIA has bounced around over the last 10 years, for example) has created a grab-it-whilst-you-can attitude. Combine that with some truly epic incompetence (especially in middle management) and we have what we have. German businesses, by comparison, have operated in a pretty stable business environment for a long a time which has engendered a more long-term attitude in business, and management tends to be a lot more competent.

So you admit that unions are necessary
And beneficial
Too many companies in uk are run for short term gain by greedy boards who just want as big a bonus as possible and to hell with the workers RBS being the biggest worst example
Union reps on the board would help stop that.

I didn't state that unions are necessary, and British unions are the very opposite of beneficial to their own members a lot of the time, let alone the business. As to union reps on boards, I see that as pointless in the UK. The average British union rep is as thick as two short planks, and that goes double for their leadership. Good luck trying to get someone of the calibre of McCluskey, Serwotka, Beckett, or Lynch to stop eating the crayons, let alone understand EBITDA.
 
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glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
I'll go with that to a point, but not driven by politics. Successive British governments constantly buggering around with everything from legislation to investment allowances (ask someone who runs a small business in the UK about how the AIA has bounced around over the last 10 years, for example) has created a grab-it-whilst-you-can attitude. Combine that with some truly epic incompetence (especially in middle management) and we have what we have. German businesses, by comparison, have operated in a pretty stable business environment for a long a time by comparison which has engendered a more long-term attitude in business, and management tends to be a lot more competent.



I didn't state that unions are necessary, and British unions are the very opposite of beneficial to their own members a lot of the time, let alone the business. As to union reps on boards in the UK, I see that as pointless in the UK. The average British union rep is as thick as two short planks, and that goes double for their leadership. Good luck trying to get someone of the calibre of McCluskey, Serwotka, Beckett, or Lynch to stop eating the crayons, let alone understand EBITDA.
So just keep blundering on then?
 

Ceri

Member
Call me really thick but I can never understand why the Labour Party are so keen on removing Bo Jo….. I mean if I were starmer I’d be desperate to keep him as the pm, keep patient and bang….. labour would win the general election…..!!?? I mean it’s a dead cert, no one would be voting conservative with bo jo in charge…….. wat happens if boris gets replaced with someone half decent from the torys who the public grow to like and trust again………???
 

Qman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Near Derby
Call me really thick but I can never understand why the Labour Party are so keen on removing Bo Jo….. I mean if I were starmer I’d be desperate to keep him as the pm, keep patient and bang….. labour would win the general election…..!!?? I mean it’s a dead cert, no one would be voting conservative with bo jo in charge…….. wat happens if boris gets replaced with someone half decent from the torys who the public grow to like and trust again………???

Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Labour are only 1 point above the Conservatives and that is in mid term. Boris will go on to win the next election, but if the Tories go against him there will be a mutiny like when they got rid of Maggie.
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Labour are only 1 point above the Conservatives and that is in mid term. Boris will go on to win the next election, but if the Tories go against him there will be a mutiny like when they got rid of Maggie.
Who's going to take over , Jeremy do fuk all Hunt ?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Labour are only 1 point above the Conservatives and that is in mid term. Boris will go on to win the next election, but if the Tories go against him there will be a mutiny like when they got rid of Maggie.

Not a chance, and I very much doubt his replacement will win a majority next time.

The majority was to ‘get Brexit done’ (or so we were told), which has been ‘done’, of a fashion anyway. That majority is already lost.
I doubt Starmer’s Labour will win a majority either, and we will be back to hung parliaments again, as we were before. Only this time, nobody will get into bed with the Conservatives, the Lib Dems and the DUP both having had their fingers burned.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
Not a chance, and I very much doubt his replacement will win a majority next time.

The majority was to ‘get Brexit done’ (or so we were told), which has been ‘done’, of a fashion anyway. That majority is already lost.
I doubt Starmer’s Labour will win a majority either, and we will be back to hung parliaments again, as we were before. Only this time, nobody will get into bed with the Conservatives, the Lib Dems and the DUP both having had their fingers burned.

About the measure of it. And the Lib Dems will this time go to Labour. More comfortable home to be and they got all the shafting for the Tories last time in 2015. Might be an interesting election in 24.
 

br jones

Member
About the measure of it. And the Lib Dems will this time go to Labour. More comfortable home to be and they got all the shafting for the Tories last time in 2015. Might be an interesting election in 24.
what lib dems ? there is only a handfull of them ,they like labour have to win the seats,and they have a bloke in charge with less appeal than starmer,if thats possible
 

Ceri

Member
Well I’ve got to the stage where I’m like any1 as long as boris is out. farming & the rural community don’t stand a chance while he’s in there with princess nut nut….. I still cant believe what he said on the Andrew Marr show about the pigs going to die anyway & basically couldn’t give a flying f**k…… What a truly awful bloke he is.
 

Longlowdog

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
Back to the original post,
I don't care if Starboy had a beer or Bo-Jo had a party and I'll tell you why.
I have broken covid rules not once or twice but often and I'd be a hypocrite to cry foul of someone else.
I have a rather slow burning cancer (myeloma) no best before date or expiry but I do have a dreadful immune system. So with that in mind when covid first became a thing I took pretty much every precaution advised. After a time and before vaccination (5th today) I was going stir crazy so if I did have to go shopping I took the long way home, often a very long way home, then I met folk outside seated at a distance in my shed. If a delivery came I engaged the driver in conversation because I really wanted someone else to talk to. I craved company!
Looking at the social media of many folk I saw things that made me raise my eyebrows before I remembered my own sins.
So in order not to be a hypocrite and because I now have a deep understanding of what socialisation means to a great many folk in terms of wellbeing and indeed mental health I don't mind and I don't care who did what during lockdown. I feel bad for those folk who behaved impeccably during lockdown but there are very few in any of MY circle of friends who could say they followed every guideline or rule 100%. The old and probably tired out adage that every time you point a finger three point back at you (unless you are Dave Allen) is how I try to decide whether to pass judgement or not these days.
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
Back to the original post,
I don't care if Starboy had a beer or Bo-Jo had a party and I'll tell you why.
I have broken covid rules not once or twice but often and I'd be a hypocrite to cry foul of someone else.
I have a rather slow burning cancer (myeloma) no best before date or expiry but I do have a dreadful immune system. So with that in mind when covid first became a thing I took pretty much every precaution advised. After a time and before vaccination (5th today) I was going stir crazy so if I did have to go shopping I took the long way home, often a very long way home, then I met folk outside seated at a distance in my shed. If a delivery came I engaged the driver in conversation because I really wanted someone else to talk to. I craved company!
Looking at the social media of many folk I saw things that made me raise my eyebrows before I remembered my own sins.
So in order not to be a hypocrite and because I now have a deep understanding of what socialisation means to a great many folk in terms of wellbeing and indeed mental health I don't mind and I don't care who did what during lockdown. I feel bad for those folk who behaved impeccably during lockdown but there are very few in any of MY circle of friends who could say they followed every guideline or rule 100%. The old and probably tired out adage that every time you point a finger three point back at you (unless you are Dave Allen) is how I try to decide whether to pass judgement or not these days.
I broke them too , not proud of it but needs must
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
Remember also it was Starmer and his woke leftie mates saying Boris didn't lockdown soon enough or hard enough

In hindsight they were well and truly wrong , and some would say Boris was wrong to lockdown at all
 

Longlowdog

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
@bobk once I was double vaccinated I went to two marts because I needed to buy a tup and sell some tups. Masks were still very much supposed to be a thing as was social distancing. At both very large sales no-one wore masks either in the stock yards or in the extremely crowded rings and no staff tried to enforce anything despite the legally required signage being in place. I'm guessing there are a lot of farming folk who deliberately and without any other reason than couldn't be ars3d broke the rules and as such have no right to point an accusatory finger at anyone.
 
@bobk once I was double vaccinated I went to two marts because I needed to buy a tup and sell some tups. Masks were still very much supposed to be a thing as was social distancing. At both very large sales no-one wore masks either in the stock yards or in the extremely crowded rings and no staff tried to enforce anything despite the legally required signage being in place. I'm guessing there are a lot of farming folk who deliberately and without any other reason than couldn't be ars3d broke the rules and as such have no right to point an accusatory finger at anyone.
I'm sorry I can't agree with this. Johnston made the rules and Starmer said they should be tougher. They are in a different situation to those who had these rules inflicted on them. If somebody at the mart wasn't wearing a mask he wasn't forcing others to.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Back to the original post,
I don't care if Starboy had a beer or Bo-Jo had a party and I'll tell you why.
I have broken covid rules not once or twice but often and I'd be a hypocrite to cry foul of someone else.
I have a rather slow burning cancer (myeloma) no best before date or expiry but I do have a dreadful immune system. So with that in mind when covid first became a thing I took pretty much every precaution advised. After a time and before vaccination (5th today) I was going stir crazy so if I did have to go shopping I took the long way home, often a very long way home, then I met folk outside seated at a distance in my shed. If a delivery came I engaged the driver in conversation because I really wanted someone else to talk to. I craved company!
Looking at the social media of many folk I saw things that made me raise my eyebrows before I remembered my own sins.
So in order not to be a hypocrite and because I now have a deep understanding of what socialisation means to a great many folk in terms of wellbeing and indeed mental health I don't mind and I don't care who did what during lockdown. I feel bad for those folk who behaved impeccably during lockdown but there are very few in any of MY circle of friends who could say they followed every guideline or rule 100%. The old and probably tired out adage that every time you point a finger three point back at you (unless you are Dave Allen) is how I try to decide whether to pass judgement or not these days.

The problem isn’t the fact that they broke the rules, but that they deliberately broke the rules which, at the same time, they were telling us every day that we must obey. They made the rules, told us that we must comply, at the same time as carrying on as normal.

The utter contempt for the ‘ordinary’ people is the issue, not the actual p*ss ups.

I don’t recall you appearing on our tv screens every day, telling us how important it was that we all abide by the rules.
 

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