Wholecrop to dry cows?

[pappuller]

We feed very low quantities of cake for spring calving so it needs to be in 1/2 kilos

1-2 kg or .5kg ?

 

[Cowfeeder87]

@foottrimmer87 are you a footrimmer or a cake rep
Strange you’ve not posted on the feet thread

I used to be a herdsman and trimmed a lot of feet before I got into nutrition

 

[In the pit]

1–2 kgs
We would feed maximum of 3–4 kgs at peak

 

[In the pit]

My feed rep told me at beginning of calving last year I needed to feed (autumn Calvers) at least 8 kilos per day to get the right amount of mineral into them REALLY

 

[Cowfeeder87]

My feed rep told me at beginning of calving last year I needed to feed (autumn Calvers) at least 8 kilos per day to get the right amount of mineral into them REALLY

Depends on the amount of mineral in the compound, some grazing cakes have double minerals in however this can effect palatability.

 

[In the pit]

A cow in total only requires 100 grams of minerals to support her needs daily so that means you’ve got 900 grams to put everything else in to get your kilo

 

[In the pit]

Depends on the amount of mineral in the compound, some grazing cakes have double minerals in however this can effect palatability.

Ours did but cows still ate it

 

[In the pit]

Always fed high energy low protein (12%) high mag cake at grass
Reps question “why do you want that”

 

[sidjon]

We fed wholecrop oats with self fed silage without any problems ( no milk fevers or retained cleansing), have even stopped feeding mag during the dry period now as it causes to much peak and drop with mag in blood, vets convenience me to stop (even though we have mag lock up problems) and just keep the levels stable and they seem to be fine.

 

[pappuller]

A cow in total only requires 100 grams of minerals to support her needs daily so that means you’ve got 900 grams to put everything else in to get your kilo

We work on 150grms but I'd guess a fair bigger type of cow here ?

 

[In the pit]

We work on 150grms but I'd guess a fair bigger type of cow here ?

But it’s not a lot in the scheme of things
Is that in cake or through wagon

 

[Llmmm]

What I’m meaning is your giving the cow a bolus 24 hours before which is an insurance policy and often masking an issue. You would not provide anything with calcium in any sooner in my experience. A good quality dry cow nut/roll or balanced ration with no added calcium for 3 weeks prior calving would be a better insurance policy and would prevent alot of problems. Older cows you may give a bottle of calcium at the point of calving.

The whole low calcium thing is old talk before calving the single most important thing is a low potassium diet its why nutritionists like straw.But straw has poor feed value alot of farmers could save alot of money if they made low potassium silage or hay haylage.Mag flakes is another thing nutritionists like useing it prevents milk fever but if its over done causes health issues.

 

[Cowfeeder87]

Ours did but cows still ate it

I did say it can effect palatability didn’t say it definitely would. Suppose it depends what else is in the compound.

 

[pappuller]

But it’s not a lot in the scheme of things
Is that in cake or through wagon

Milkers get mins in dairy cake through bots av 150grms/day. Higher yielding fresher cows will get more with getting more cake. Have moved onto ad lb haylage for dry cows, 1kg pre calve rolls for far offs and 2kg for close at calving. Been on tmr dry cow mix until a month ago

 

[Cowfeeder87]

Always fed high energy low protein (12%) high mag cake at grass
Reps question “why do you want that”

The whole low calcium thing is old talk before calving the single most important thing is a low potassium diet its why nutritionists like straw.But straw has poor feed value alot of farmers could save alot of money if they made low potassium silage or hay haylage.Mag flakes is another thing nutritionists like useing it prevents milk fever but if its over done causes health issues.

Calcium level definitely isn’t old talk and is very important, potassium level is also very important. Straw is used more to get the energy density of the diet back down after adding concentrate to warm up the rumen bugs and get the protein level where we want it or if using forage higher in energy than required. Every diet is different and all need balanced accordingly. The attention to detail and time delivering it to the cows is also as important along with shed design etc.

 

[Llmmm]

Calcium level definitely isn’t old talk and is very important, potassium level is also very important. Straw is used more to get the energy density of the diet back down after adding concentrate to warm up the rumen bugs and get the protein level where we want it or if using forage higher in energy than required. Every diet is different and all need balanced accordingly. The attention to detail and time delivering it to the cows is also as important along with shed design etc.

All these nutritionists complicate simplicity and add costs to farmers by createing complicated systems of feeding there are plenty of farmers feeding low potassium silage or hay with a dry cow mineral or roll and haveing no issues and saving money by not paying for compicated advice

 

[Cowfeeder87]

All these nutritionists complicate simplicity and add costs to farmers by createing complicated systems of feeding there are plenty of farmers feeding low potassium silage or hay with a dry cow mineral or roll and haveing no issues and saving money by not paying for compicated advice

I completely disagree, if you have a low input low output system you can probably get away with what you are saying however the more higher input higher output cow needs that extra attention to detail and investment in the dry period to keep the vet out the yard and get the most out the next lactation as the demands of the higher output cow is far greater. It isn’t complicated at all it’s just a little time and attention to detail. I try to use what the farmer already has on farm so isn’t expensive at all in most cases, just time and a little effort that makes a huge difference. Why do you have such a low opinion of Nutrition advisors? Yes we have some poor ones but we also have some very good ones, my attitude is I don’t and the company I work for doesn’t have a business without farmers so it’s in our interest to look after and do our best for our customers. Your always going to get an odd bad egg but you do in any walk of life.

 

[Llmmm]

I completely disagree, if you have a low input low output system you can probably get away with what you are saying however the more higher input higher output cow needs that extra attention to detail and investment in the dry period to keep the vet out the yard and get the most out the next lactation as the demands of the higher output cow is far greater. It isn’t complicated at all it’s just a little time and attention to detail. I try to use what the farmer already has on farm so isn’t expensive at all in most cases, just time and a little effort that makes a huge difference. Why do you have such a low opinion of Nutrition advisors? Yes we have some poor ones but we also have some very good ones, my attitude is I don’t and the company I work for doesn’t have a business without farmers so it’s in our interest to look after and do our best for our customers. Your always going to get an odd bad egg but you do in any walk of life.

I know plenty of high yielding herds useing low potassium silage hay with no issues.I also know high yielding herds which have nitritionists makeing things complicated.An example is a large number use anionic salts to prevent milk fever as its an easy solution if urine phs are not monitored which they never are and too much is in the ration static rumens and other issues occur after calving.

 

[Cowfeeder87]

I know plenty of high yielding herds useing low potassium silage hay with no issues.I also know high yielding herds which have nitritionists makeing things complicated.An example is a large number use anionic salts to prevent milk fever as its an easy solution if urine phs are not monitored which they never are and too much is in the ration static rumens wand other issues occur after calving.

Low potassium haylege is good but still needs balanced in a lot of cases, some times a simple dry cow nut is enough and other times it needs a little more to be balanced just depends on the farm. Ah no I have never used anionic salts that does get too complicated and like you say waste of time if not done right.

 

[Cno]

I'm going to be feeding some wholecrop spring oats to dry's this year. The main reason is because I've rented a block of ground in a mid tier scheme which has to have 100ac of spring sown wholecrop on it. I don't need that much SB so I put some into oats this year as a trial.

I think it will do 10-12t fw/ac and tweaking the system a bit I hope we can do higher in future.

How did you find this? What stage did you take the oats, and are you feeding it as a mix or straight?