Who's at the national this year ?

[Howard150]

Directors who dont direct? Bound to be some of those, and there should be a mechanism for their removal. The angst is not just on here, its there, if only as an undercurrent at most matches, evidenced by the obvious disagreement exhibited at prize givings! Never have so many shoulders been shrugged, or heads shaken upon hearing the awards.
There has always been a group who disagree with the results, but they are now approaching majority status, and that is going to lead to problems, one of which could be matches becoming bereft of judges. That may not be all bad, ploughmen would then have to judge the work and would find it hard to disagree with any result!

Whilst I honestly admire your dogged determination, i cant help but be amazed by your naievety. Your knowledge of the workings of the SOP are clouded both by your dream and possibly your landlord.

The executive is a self elected self propagating body.
The executive co-opts at will whosoever they see fit.
The members have no say whatsoever as to who is on the executive.
The members have no say whatsoever in what the executive does.
Whilst the exective alegedy run the society on behalf of the directors this is incorrect. Moves are in place by the executive to reduce the rank of director to committee member. Lets not forget that once recent connivance by the executive had been legalised, 5 directors were sacked.
Whilst the situation is of no immediate concern to those of us who have walked / been sent away, ultimately it all percolates down to grass roots level.
Just one small point of which I am sure you have been advised of many times, is that your stance of devils advocate for both sides simultaneously, does little other than cause confusion.

 

[Lurker]

At the risk of being rude aren't you guys just repeating yourselves with the same old arguments and slagging matches, instead of clashing heads would it not be best to put your heads together to find a common agreeable solution to that could be suggested to the SOP in regards to all ploughing matches?

Wasn't there talk of a break away organisation? because of the discontent what happened to that plan?

In regards to score sheets Howard150 you mention World, European and Southern Ireland what do they do that is so different, what do you think the good points are that can be extracted from each and what system do they use in Northern Ireland and Scotland is their any good points in their judging system.

What does MyDexta & Woody think in regards to whatever system used in Scotland compared to the SOP?

 

[arcobob]

At the risk of being rude aren't you guys just repeating yourselves with the same old arguments and slagging matches, instead of clashing heads would it not be best to put your heads together to find a common agreeable solution to that could be suggested to the SOP in regards to all ploughing matches?

Wasn't there talk of a break away organisation? because of the discontent what happened to that plan?

In regards to score sheets Howard150 you mention World, European and Southern Ireland what do they do that is so different, what do you think the good points are that can be extracted from each and what system do they use in Northern Ireland and Scotland is their any good points in their judging system.

What does MyDexta & Woody think in regards to whatever system used in Scotland compared to the SOP?

Have you ever had any success in suggesting something to the SOP which they find not to their liking ?

 

[Howard150]

At the risk of being rude aren't you guys just repeating yourselves with the same old arguments and slagging matches, instead of clashing heads would it not be best to put your heads together to find a common agreeable solution to that could be suggested to the SOP in regards to all ploughing matches?

Wasn't there talk of a break away organisation? because of the discontent what happened to that plan?

In regards to score sheets Howard150 you mention World, European and Southern Ireland what do they do that is so different, what do you think the good points are that can be extracted from each and what system do they use in Northern Ireland and Scotland is their any good points in their judging system.

What does MyDexta & Woody think in regards to whatever system used in Scotland compared to the SOP?

Hardly rude having an opinion. Don’t be offended when I suggest that you also make the effort, go to Doncaster, get your seat on the board and get elected onto the executive but be warned.....camels through eyes of needles. It would be easier to bail Bridlington harbour out with a bucket or even to force an inflated football into a pint glass. Clashing heads never happens as questions and proposals are met with and dismissed with either a grunt or stony stare at the floor. Like it or not they are the judge, jury and executioner and now remain ensconced in an impenetrable bastion.

As far as the scoresheet goes then the imposition of straightness was done abysmally. In the world and European there are 4 aspects for it, albeit halving the total of them, here only one for starters. The excuse being that the old dears at matches adding the scores would never cope with the maths. General appearance is serially abused and should be removed. Let’s not forget though, make the scoresheet fair and it makes it harder and harder to ‘choose’ the winner. Why ever the need to reduce the points total from 40 to 20 let alone 10.

In Southern Ireland look at how general or middle work is pointed.

Scotland impose strict time penalties for the start and for completion.

 

[Ley253]

At the risk of being rude aren't you guys just repeating yourselves with the same old arguments and slagging matches, instead of clashing heads would it not be best to put your heads together to find a common agreeable solution to that could be suggested to the SOP in regards to all ploughing matches?

Wasn't there talk of a break away organisation? because of the discontent what happened to that plan?

In regards to score sheets Howard150 you mention World, European and Southern Ireland what do they do that is so different, what do you think the good points are that can be extracted from each and what system do they use in Northern Ireland and Scotland is their any good points in their judging system.

What does MyDexta & Woody think in regards to whatever system used in Scotland compared to the SOP?

One, we are, and can no more move on than the SOP, something to do with basically being similar people!
Two, there was but when one man could not organise it, there was no one willing to step up to the line and carry it on. That does not bode well for it ever coming to fruition.

 

[Lurker]

Thank you all for your interesting constructive viewpoints, I shall try and look at the positives in your responses

Have you ever had any success in suggesting something to the SOP which they find not to their liking ?

I haven't tried as yet to be frank, have you? what was your suggestion and how did it go?

Hardly rude having an opinion. Don’t be offended when I suggest that you also make the effort, go to Doncaster, get your seat on the board and get elected onto the executive but be warned.....camels through eyes of needles. It would be easier to bail Bridlington harbour out with a bucket or even to force an inflated football into a pint glass. Clashing heads never happens as questions and proposals are met with and dismissed with either a grunt or stony stare at the floor. Like it or not they are the judge, jury and executioner and now remain ensconced in an impenetrable bastion.

As far as the scoresheet goes then the imposition of straightness was done abysmally. In the world and European there are 4 aspects for it, albeit halving the total of them, here only one for starters. The excuse being that the old dears at matches adding the scores would never cope with the maths. General appearance is serially abused and should be removed. Let’s not forget though, make the scoresheet fair and it makes it harder and harder to ‘choose’ the winner. Why ever the need to reduce the points total from 40 to 20 let alone 10.

In Southern Ireland look at how general or middle work is pointed.

Scotland impose strict time penalties for the start and for completion.

Would I have your backing if I went to Doncaster and tried for a seat on the board? To try and make changes must come from within, discussing on the side lines can only amount to nothing anyway, one can only try their best. I agree the score sheet needs revamped but from what I've seen world and European are just too complex for local matches to follow needs something that rewards the skills proportionally though more than we have at the moment and yes general work is the largest proportion and I like the idea of strict time penalties and feel that is something worthwhile suggesting.

One, we are, and can no more move on than the SOP, something to do with basically being similar people!
Two, there was but when one man could not organise it, there was no one willing to step up to the line and carry it on. That does not bode well for it ever coming to fruition.

On your first point, why move on the SOP, why not infiltrate, gain trust, plant seeds and try to bring the board round over time, and for your second point surely the point is not for one man or family to organise it but for it to be whom the members elect out of those who may be persuaded to stand and I can only suggest perhaps those should be those who have been seeking change and fairness for all. Surely a democratic process can be implemented so each board member and office bearer stand for a maximum fixed term before requiring re-election.

 

[rusty nuts]

A ploughing match that is not a member of the SOP can surely use any way of scoring there own match anyway they like with there own scoresheet.

 

[arcobob]

A ploughing match that is not a member of the SOP can surely use any way of scoring there own match anyway they like with there own scoresheet.

Some have their own rules, method of scoring and so on. The problem arises when different scorers are used from other areas who are not familiar with the system and ploughmen from other regions participate and find that the locals are calling the shots by baffling them with unfamiliar rules. We need a set of rules that are universally applied coupled with trained officials who know how to apply them and that includes judges and stewards. That way the competitors know exactly what the procedures are and how they will be treated. Wishy- washy governance badly applied causes controversy and conflict.

 

[arcobob]

I haven't tried as yet to be frank, have you? what was your suggestion and how did it go?

I will not go into detail but I have corresponded with the SOP via the Doncaster office and have sent copies of the correspondence to a director and a member of the executive, neither of whom was able to confirm that the points that I had raised had ever been discussed in any decision making meeting. In other words the filter at the front desk decides the conduct of business and the rest is a sham. I am not alone in experiencing this I can assure you and after a while you come to accept that you have to put up with it or walk away. I do not expect my suggestions or problems to be acted upon but I do expect a fair hearing and for this reason I have not been a member since 2011 and in all probability never will be again.

 

[rusty nuts]

Thank you all for your interesting constructive viewpoints, I shall try and look at the positives in your responses



I haven't tried as yet to be frank, have you? what was your suggestion and how did it go?



Would I have your backing if I went to Doncaster and tried for a seat on the board? To try and make changes must come from within, discussing on the side lines can only amount to nothing anyway, one can only try their best. I agree the score sheet needs revamped but from what I've seen world and European are just too complex for local matches to follow needs something that rewards the skills proportionally though more than we have at the moment and yes general work is the largest proportion and I like the idea of strict time penalties and feel that is something worthwhile suggesting.



On your first point, why move on the SOP, why not infiltrate, gain trust, plant seeds and try to bring the board round over time, and for your second point surely the point is not for one man or family to organise it but for it to be whom the members elect out of those who may be persuaded to stand and I can only suggest perhaps those should be those who have been seeking change and fairness for all. Surely a democratic process can be implemented so each board member and office bearer stand for a maximum fixed term before requiring re-election.

A

Some have their own rules, method of scoring and so on. The problem arises when different scorers are used from other areas who are not familiar with the system and ploughmen from other regions participate and find that the locals are calling the shots by baffling them with unfamiliar rules. We need a set of rules that are universally applied coupled with trained officials who know how to apply them and that includes judges and stewards. That way the competitors know exactly what the procedures are and how they will be treated. Wishy- washy governance badly applied causes controversy and conflict.

Some have their own rules, method of scoring and so on. The problem arises when different scorers are used from other areas who are not familiar with the system and ploughmen from other regions participate and find that the locals are calling the shots by baffling them with unfamiliar rules. We need a set of rules that are universally applied coupled with trained officials who know how to apply them and that includes judges and stewards. That way the competitors know exactly what the procedures are and how they will be treated. Wishy- washy governance badly applied causes controversy and conflict.

I think the last four words could be an echo

 

[Howard150]

Thank you all for your interesting constructive viewpoints, I shall try and look at the positives in your responses

On your first point, why move on the SOP, why not infiltrate, gain trust, plant seeds and try to bring the board round over time, and for your second point surely the point is not for one man or family to organise it but for it to be whom the members elect out of those who may be persuaded to stand and I can only suggest perhaps those should be those who have been seeking change and fairness for all. Surely a democratic process can be implemented so each board member and office bearer stand for a maximum fixed term before requiring re-election.

There has never been - despite all the rumours - a takeover bid made on the SOP. The petition was for change to a fairer society governed by other than one man and more transparency. It has got worse not better. It is a closed shop. The members did not want 5 directors dismissed entirely. The executive aparrently did.

There is also another theory. Change the venue for the AGM. Go to any ploughing match and you will learn what’s wrong with the society, those who run it and the rules. You will be overwhelmed with virtue and strong opinion. That room has a lot to answer for. Without a shadow of a doubt it creates a serious personality disorder. It renders people speechless and robs them of the use of their arms. Move it somewhere else and the possibilities are endless!

There is of course the other facet guaranteed to gag complainants and that is fear of retribution and the adverse effect likely to be heaped in the transgressor should they speak out.

 

[arcobob]

A


I think the last four words could be an echo

If this is becoming tedious you are right, it is. No other sport or pastime is run by such a dictatorial and hard headed bunch of autocrats, not even FIFA. Strong governance is required but sanctioned and moulded by the participants.

 

[Boysie]

Just a spectator that used to do quite well ploughing.

The best ploughmen are the ones that don't plough themselves

 

[12 bore]

There is obviously a big problem with the sop, nearly every post on here at some point comes back to them. I know little about the sop other than it should be ambassador and governing body for this past time. At the end of the day ploughing at a competitive level will stagnate if the problems are as rife and deep rooted as they seem to be from others experiences. I'm only just getting in to ploughing and hope to get to a decent standard, i consider myself one of the younger people starting out (30!) But to be frank all of these issues with the sop make me less than enthusiastic about having anything to do with the organisation. If problems are as bad what's stopping people voting with their feet and leaving? Surely there is enough ploughmen to start an alternative that will work for the many and not the few

 

[rusty nuts]

Just go to ploughing matches and enjoy them you need not worry about the SOP there are hundreds of matches that are nothing to do with them.

 

[12 bore]

Just go to ploughing matches and enjoy them you need not worry about the SOP there are hundreds of matches that are nothing to do with them.

This does seem to be the awnser at the end of the day I just want to be out on my tractor. The better I get the more competitive I'll become probably!

 

[Ley253]

Thank you all for your interesting constructive viewpoints, I shall try and look at the positives in your responses



I haven't tried as yet to be frank, have you? what was your suggestion and how did it go?



Would I have your backing if I went to Doncaster and tried for a seat on the board? To try and make changes must come from within, discussing on the side lines can only amount to nothing anyway, one can only try their best. I agree the score sheet needs revamped but from what I've seen world and European are just too complex for local matches to follow needs something that rewards the skills proportionally though more than we have at the moment and yes general work is the largest proportion and I like the idea of strict time penalties and feel that is something worthwhile suggesting.



On your first point, why move on the SOP, why not infiltrate, gain trust, plant seeds and try to bring the board round over time, and for your second point surely the point is not for one man or family to organise it but for it to be whom the members elect out of those who may be persuaded to stand and I can only suggest perhaps those should be those who have been seeking change and fairness for all. Surely a democratic process can be implemented so each board member and office bearer stand for a maximum fixed term before requiring re-election.

I was replying to your points. Those that need to move on are on here,with just as entrenched opinions as those they criticize
One man made an offer to all the complainants, in that he would organise a meeting in the Stafford area, he received support for this. However, due to family problems, he was unable to manage to find time to arrange the meeting.As it then withered on the branch, it would seem that all his supporters were less than committed, had they been, someone else could and would have taken over.
I am a SOP member, and as H 150 is never tired of telling people, I consider David Chappell to be a friend. This does not mean I worship the ground he ploughs, or that he can do no wrong, indeed we have bones of contention regarding some of the SOP antics! I do fire ideas at him to pass up the chain and a couple have taken root .
All this being the case, I am in fact doing just what your advocating!

 

[Ley253]

Just go to ploughing matches and enjoy them you need not worry about the SOP there are hundreds of matches that are nothing to do with them.

Perhaps there are in your area, but I have competed in matches from Goole to Chichester, and St Davids to Bridlington, and all were using SOP rules.

 

[IH574]

Thank you all for your interesting constructive viewpoints, I shall try and look at the positives in your responses



I haven't tried as yet to be frank, have you? what was your suggestion and how did it go?



Would I have your backing if I went to Doncaster and tried for a seat on the board? To try and make changes must come from within, discussing on the side lines can only amount to nothing anyway, one can only try their best. I agree the score sheet needs revamped but from what I've seen world and European are just too complex for local matches to follow needs something that rewards the skills proportionally though more than we have at the moment and yes general work is the largest proportion and I like the idea of strict time penalties and feel that is something worthwhile suggesting.



On your first point, why move on the SOP, why not infiltrate, gain trust, plant seeds and try to bring the board round over time, and for your second point surely the point is not for one man or family to organise it but for it to be whom the members elect out of those who may be persuaded to stand and I can only suggest perhaps those should be those who have been seeking change and fairness for all. Surely a democratic process can be implemented so each board member and office bearer stand for a maximum fixed term before requiring re-election.

If you read through a quite a few threads h150 and his cronies eventually hijack them for poisoning as many ploughmen as they can against the sop.They are as bad if not worse than the people they attack.

 

[Boysie]

It's a shame on here so many anti society people and keyboard warriors get so much attention in reality they have more against the fact there are people out there who are better at a ploughing than themselves and want the goalposts changed down to their level of ploughing its nationwide now.
the ones that give ploughing 100% dedication and come out on top always have bad said about them regardless of the hard work they put in yes we have good bad judges you get this in every claas the only way to out this is to plough the perfect plot then you have another problem lower performing ploughmen who can't or won't better themselves move class or give up and spread hatred for the ones doing good. In the world European or five nations a plot is never the same there are so many variables that a ploughmen cannot prepare for however good he she is fact, the last thing they need is keyboard warriors making them feel bad about their efforts these people on here that think the national can run like a local match are stupid you can organise a local match in a couple weeks the national no.
Irvine Jenkins and ploughwright tried to start another organisation away from society and it failed because of the same negatively between people just remember that.
As a conclusion to this and wanting to get peter alderslade and david Chappell to bring home gold at the 2019 world championships I am going to propose ploughmen 61 to be coach for the team and wish him every success