Who's looking at grazing lucerne as a drought resilient pasture?

[IFarmers]

Hi folks,

We've produced this film to share knowledge from farmer led research looking at various drought resilient pastures in the east of the UK.

You can watch it here:

It would be interesting to hear who else has had a positive result from lucerne? What learnings you have made? And if any businesses in the drier east would be tempted to grow lucerne/adapt sheep into their arable system after watching this?

 

[Bury the Trash]

Ideal

 

[Al R]

Does Lucerne have a problem with oestrogen can with ewes like red clover?

 

[Bury the Trash]

Does Lucerne have a problem with oestrogen can with ewes like red clover?

no it doesnt ,
but there's some fungus or the like that can get on Lucerne can be a bit negative against breeding in some way / got watch out for in some circumstances i forget now but i think its all on here somewhere
i dont remember having any trouble mind you ,not that we knew about anyway

 

[Global ovine]

An excellent video of a very good farmer's endeavours to avoid the risk of dry seasons. I have attached an article I wrote for clients of @easyram1 about growing lucerne. Hopefully the lessons used in the summer dry regions of NZ are just as applicable elsewhere. The last paragraph deals with the oestrogenic effect of "Blackspot" fungus on ewe lambing %.

 

[Bury the Trash]

That last para is :
"Avoid flushing ewes on Lucerne when Black Spot is present on leaves. This particular fungus produces a phyto- oestrogen that suppresses ewe fertility temporarily."

found this on the subject to set the scene to that

Ewes on red clover

Some people say NEVER put ewes near red clover within a few months of tupping as it acts as the pill, others say they've never had any problems etc? @bovine @Global ovine I know last year we put the ewe lambs onto red clover the day after the Rams came out, the theory being that if their...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

i wonder if vareties vary in their susceptibility to black spot

could it be also that keeping a more open or shorter stand would be less susceptible. unlike in a for mowing /conservation type use.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Look at what Doug Avery did at Bonaveree in Marlborough, NZ, using lucerne.

 

[Global ovine]

The phyto-oestrogen causing ovulation rate depression produced by the fungus Blackspot on old lucerne leaf in autumn is different chemically and in mode of action to that present in varying concentrations in the different Red Clover cultivars.

Lucerne Blackspot fungus effect is temporary, ie. it only affects the ovarian activity during the season it is consumed. Whereas Formenonetin in Red Clover is produced by the clover plant throughout the growing season, changed into Equol (the phyto-oestrogen) by the rumen flora and progressively damages the tissues of the cervix and vagina where in advanced cases sperm transport is totally disrupted (hence non fertilisation) and the birth passage thickens and loses elasticity (hence dystocia), therefore this one is accumulative.

Management of Blackspot in lucerne is quite simple; don't let the crop get too old before harvesting/grazing. If more than 50% of the stems are flowering, as then the crop is past its best. However, if some fungus is seen on the lower leaves in autumn and would be intended to be grazed, delay grazing until after mating, use another field or pasture type. Then the ovulation rate (lamb crop) will not be reduced, the pregnant ewe will not be affected and the lucerne crop left with more flower for a month will have more energy put into root reserve, hence a stronger plant coming out of dormancy in spring.
Lucerne is best suited to summer dry regions. Blackspot fungus loves prolonged wet/humid periods. There are Lucerne cultivars bred in NZ that are more resistant to Blackspot.

 

[IFarmers]

Does Lucerne have a problem with oestrogen can with ewes like red clover?

You might be interested that we have a field lab looking at the red clover and oestrogen issue - https://www.innovativefarmers.org/n...eeding-sheep-benefit-from-grazing-red-clover/

 

[ajcc]

You need alkaline soil

 

[exmoor dave]

An excellent video of a very good farmer's endeavours to avoid the risk of dry seasons. I have attached an article I wrote for clients of @easyram1 about growing lucerne. Hopefully the lessons used in the summer dry regions of NZ are just as applicable elsewhere. The last paragraph deals with the oestrogenic effect of "Blackspot" fungus on ewe lambing %.

Would there be much merit in sowning a proportion of a new block of lucerne, or prehaps a adjoining field, into a grass/ lucerne mix for transitional purposes?

I think it's the transition (sometimes horror) stories that put people off lucerne or at least make them nervous


We put a very small bit of lucerne in with a chicory/ clover/ plaintain mix earlier this year.
If you look hard enough, you can find the lucerne, but I think the chicory is really far too dominant.

I'm in too minds on lucerne, I think we have some appropriate ground for it, we're pretty summer dry.
But I'm wondering if the chicory/ clover mixes will do what we want without the transitional issues, but probably at lesser production than lucerne?

 

[Bury the Trash]

Soil / geology type is important for growing it and you can't change that like you can ph by adding lime, and its not just about being dry ground either.

GO has written about on here somewhere before.
Yer tis
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...row-to-rejuvenate-pasture.311782/post-6811542

 

[Derrick Hughes]

He seems to be suggesting it's more trouble than it's worth , would it not b eisier for him to harvest it and feed it out on grass pasture when feed is short , as for the uk , there is an abundance of pasture in areas that to much rain is more of an issue so why keep sheep in an area that's difficult to grow grass , just my mutterings
There are also plenty of deep rooting herbs and grasses mixed with clovers that willcope with drier conditions and more of a Ballanced diet for sheep

 

[Bury the Trash]

why be so narrow minded and negative about a new idea ?

is it that there's not such a big profit margin on Lucerne seed

 

[Global ovine]

Would there be much merit in sowning a proportion of a new block of lucerne, or prehaps a adjoining field, into a grass/ lucerne mix for transitional purposes?

I think it's the transition (sometimes horror) stories that put people off lucerne or at least make them nervous


We put a very small bit of lucerne in with a chicory/ clover/ plaintain mix earlier this year.
If you look hard enough, you can find the lucerne, but I think the chicory is really far too dominant.

I'm in too minds on lucerne, I think we have some appropriate ground for it, we're pretty summer dry.
But I'm wondering if the chicory/ clover mixes will do what we want without the transitional issues, but probably at lesser production than lucerne?

I personally don't see any benefit in growing a mixed sward for transitioning purposes. Sheep will still preferentially graze the sweet and juicy stuff first. I go back to the article attached above, make sure the clostridial vaccination of fattening stock is sufficient and introduce the stock progressively to get their rumen fauna/flora adjusted. As David Cross emphasised on the video, supplying some roughage (meadow hay etc.) is a very good way to prevent gut disease caused deaths.

Lucerne in mixes is most successful where intense summer dry exits. In such regions the quantity of grasses on offer is more important than quality. Therefore the grazing spells and durations can be timed more to suit the lucerne than the grass and herb components for the longevity of Lucerne. Lucerne hates to be grazed when immature and when it is yet to come out of dormancy in the spring. It is very sensitive to tall competition in spring.

Growing Lucerne as a specialist perennial crop first is an advisable learning process. It has very different management requirements to grass based swards. It remains the king of high digestibility, yield and protein rich feeds.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

We grow around 20 acres on very light and sandy land. It is tricky to get established and needs careful handling in the first year. We planted it in early Spring and it did suffer a little from the sand blowing. It is in very alkaline soil.
Once it is established it is very nearly indestructible as long as you don't overgraze it.
We also autumn graze large areas where it is cut up to 4 times for haylage.
It takes the sheep a while to get into it and we find that you need to put big lambs on to it as otherwise they tend to grow initially rather than finish. It is great food for cull ewes.
Very important not to overgraze it at any time and over the winter we take it down to around 2".

 

[Derrick Hughes]

why be so narrow minded and negative about a new idea ?

is it that there's not such a big profit margin on Lucerne seed

I thought the man on the vidio was the negative one

 

[Bury the Trash]

I thought the man on the vidio was the negative one

i havnt watched the video tbh

 

[Will Blackburn]

I’ve grazed most of my lucerne aftermath much to the chagrin of my lucerne specialist agronomist. Absolutely no problems whatsoever. We left two small patches ungrazed so we will see if it was to the detriment to the crop.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

i havnt watched the video tbh

If you got Sky , watch the film the Rams