WHY 21kg Tops, DW?

yellowbelly

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
N.Lincs
Agree with your theory of producing a product what they want for the public to consume, and one they demand? But are you rewarded for it? Time and time again we hear r3l 18 kilo is what they want, well do you get a premium? 85/90 % of mine will be e/ u 2,3l, 3h, would leave me a premium of 20 quid a lamb by providing not exactly what they want.
Has anybody ever sat down and wondered how the supermarkets arrived at the magic R3L 18kg spec?

The cynic in me says it was not driven by what the consumer has asked them for (as @Lovegoodstock says the consumer really only has what supermarkets give them). I would argue it came from looking on the world market to see what was easily obtainable and what they could easily source to import and hold our end price down.
R3L's are available by the boatload from the other side of the world - E3L's, I suspect, are a little less plentiful....
We're not in sheep in a big enough way to compete against boatloads of R3L's (in what is, effectively, a race to the bottom - if we do 'em at £70, NZ will do 'em at £60 etc), that's why we aim to produce a heavier better shaped product to sell at a premium in a live market (and get paid for the full weight - market scales permitting:confused: but that's a whole different thread:rolleyes:)
 
Reading through this post it's very clear to see some people are not interested in producing the product our customers want , then complain that our customers are purchasing a in spec product from a country overseas who listen to there end buyers consumers ,
 

rancher

Member
Location
Ireland
Agree with your theory of producing a product what they want for the public to consume, and one they demand? But are you rewarded for it? Time and time again we hear r3l 18 kilo is what they want, well do you get a premium? 85/90 % of mine will be e/ u 2,3l, 3h, would leave me a premium of 20 quid a lamb by providing not exactly what they want. Give me 20 quid extra for an r grade lamb I will happily do it. And as for what the consumer demands,,, they really don't have a clue, they supposedly want what the supermarkets dictate to them, ok yes smaller joints due to cost, but fat cover they wouldn't have a clue, price price price,bigger chops at same price would go down well, bigger joints means nothing as will be binned as a large %

€2/lamb is the difference in price between an r and u grade lamb here,, a pound per kg is a huge difference in price, you're either on a rubbish R price or a great U price
 

goodevans

Member
Yet big bulls and bullocks are on fire live atm...
isnt that because there is not many of them about because under 400kg carcases and under 16mths get rewarded.heavy lambs get rewarded in summer because everybody sells at 42kgs or there abouts as always think trade will drop.double the number of heavy bullocks /bulls and I bet they wouldn't be on fire/hoggets in march the reverse happens as theres a glut of 48kg+plus about and not many-45kgs
 
€2/lamb is the difference in price between an r and u grade lamb here,, a pound per kg is a huge difference in price, you're either on a rubbish R price or a great U price
Sadly on a 10ppk premium on u grade but what I said was they want an 18 kilo carcass and the difference in providing them that to a 21 kilo u grade carcass will be 20 odd quid give or take
 
Reading through this post it's very clear to see some people are not interested in producing the product our customers want , then complain that our customers are purchasing a in spec product from a country overseas who listen to there end buyers consumers ,
Most of our product is bought through supermarkets, where price is key. Nothing at all to do with our product not being in spec, as they put what they have got in their abattoirs in spec on the shelf, so the same. But when they have ordered 6 months prior, 10.000 tonnes of lamb meat, they will push that to the front to sell for obvious reasons, however the smaller majority of consumers, that have plenty of money and believe in butchers meat of higher quality and welfare grounds, pay a premium for a lamb that will be a 4l 4h grade and weight would often be of out of spec supermarket lamb. These lambs would show the greatest margin, so what are you saying the consumer wants? There is a big variation in consumer demand. Without throwing in the ever growing ethnic demand for lighter leaner lambs, ewes with little fat. If we produced 100 % r3l lambs, there would be a lot of people not catered for in their demand and wants for lamb
 

Wink

Member
Location
Hampshire
Spoke to someone from one of the big processors tonight who used to work for us. He's going to ask more but from what I gather at this place about 10% of the daily cut come in as "heavies". For these, they need to be cut differently (stop the line, change of butchery requirements,longer cutting time/separation etc - time), going to different markets (organisation and different transport - time). This is not a killing plant but presumably they would pay less for the heavy lambs (same as standard lamb) as it does not matter they weigh more - for them they will perhaps get the same end margin as the smaller lamb purely due to these time efficiencies etc. These businesses sound super highly efficient (and their pay can be top rate for a top butcher employee) so if supplying them the product needs to match. Like others have said end customer comes first so produce the product to match their requirements.
 
So why are they not paying more for an 18 kilo r3l than you get for a over 21 kilo e grade lamb? That will gross you 20 quid more when I was selling lambs in june july? Appreciate what you are saying, but I they are so efficient, which these big firms generally are, and a non conforming lamb is costing them time and therefore money, then why is their highly desirable in spec lamb not the thing that can gross the most money? The customer comes first, I agree, but still question the customer desires a 18k r3l lamb, to be honest I bet 95% wouldn't have a clue what a 18k r3l lamb means, but its what suits the processor. The reasons they give, suits their margins, as said if it was costing them money receiving a 22k e3l lamb why do they pay us more for it, it cant be as inefficient as claimed. Butchery times will not alter if you are talking a difference of a couple of kilo lamb, it takes the same time to slice through 100g chops as 300g chops
 

Wink

Member
Location
Hampshire
So why are they not paying more for an 18 kilo r3l than you get for a over 21 kilo e grade lamb? That will gross you 20 quid more when I was selling lambs in june july? Appreciate what you are saying, but I they are so efficient, which these big firms generally are, and a non conforming lamb is costing them time and therefore money, then why is their highly desirable in spec lamb not the thing that can gross the most money? The customer comes first, I agree, but still question the customer desires a 18k r3l lamb, to be honest I bet 95% wouldn't have a clue what a 18k r3l lamb means, but its what suits the processor. The reasons they give, suits their margins, as said if it was costing them money receiving a 22k e3l lamb why do they pay us more for it, it cant be as inefficient as claimed. Butchery times will not alter if you are talking a difference of a couple of kilo lamb, it takes the same time to slice through 100g chops as 300g chops
Agree - I'm not saying it's right or fair - should gain more of it ends up at the right market. I just wanted to find out more. With regards to customer - sure the end customer in this case wouldn't have a clue what they wanted perhaps, those that did and wanted different would go to a local butcher, that's what I find - they come because they want proper big chops and steaks and can have it cut to requirements. But in this case the customer is the factory and their customer is the supermarket and then their customer is the end consumer so precisely those ruddy supermarket things dictate everything. (This plant largely supplies one so that's obviously their spec). With regards to the chops from what I understood they were deemed as too big so they would (don't quote me) be coming out as strip loins (many go abroad) - this is increased butchery time as taking off the bone and increased transport time plus higher wastage for the bones which have to payed to take away.
 

rancher

Member
Location
Ireland
The weight limit here at the moment is 22kg, I think it'll go up to 23 in the new year
Our buyer doesn't have any problem with carcases on the max weight, they have an elite market for heavy U grades....... but that market wouldn't take all the heavy lambs they'd get if the penalties weren't there......
Don't know where this talk of a preference for 18kg is coming from,.we'd always be aiming for the max weight and never get any complaints
Surely trays or packaging for chops, legs, is easier if carcases are uniform in size.
To be fair, when we go out to buy something, we like it to be to our preference, we ignore those that are selling something we don't like/want.
 

Bob c

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cotswolds
I presume 22kg is carcase weight and not live?
Depends how it grades out, but with 21kg the cut off, I'd say £77-£78.

rugby
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price gone back a bit
to what it was

2nd of october
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Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
rugby
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price gone back a bit
to what it was

2nd of october
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My price was just a guess, Iv not sent anything for a fortnight so haven't heard what prices are at currently... but reckoned they would still be near 3.70p

Friend had some 52kg lambs away through the week (live) - £79.50. Chev Mule and Half-bred, but he said Texels were not doing any better. He actually topped the 46kg+ weight category...
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


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