Why did no-till not take off in the 1980s?

[Feldspar]

Was Googling for something else and came across this AHDB blog post: http://cereals-blog.ahdb.org.uk/what-went-wrong-with-direct-drill-in-the-1980s/.

In this post there is another link to an ADAS report from the time about direct drilling, which can be seen here: https://cereals.ahdb.org.uk/media/288457/rr5-final-project-report.pdf.

Just wondering if these accounts are accurate, and whether there's any lesson to be taken forward to today's situation?

 

[Feldspar]

The second link is quite an interesting read with a lot of useful results. Basically it means we should do much better out of zero tillage compared to @Clive, so maybe I should stop complaining about heavy land.

That said, my big lesson from last year is that I think chopping straw might be a problem in some parts of the rotation. I wonder whether baling straw off in front of 2nd wheats might be a good idea.

 

[average farmer]

From what ive seen on here 2nd wheat's are a problem with direct drilling, But when we ran the Claydon 2nd wheats were the most improved crop. Might just have been the yeras but 2nd wheats did
seem to do well. I put it down to the roots getiing down to firm soils with non of last years residue mixed in

 

[Feldspar]

From what ive seen on here 2nd wheat's are a problem with direct drilling, But when we ran the Claydon 2nd wheats were the most improved crop. Might just have been the yeras but 2nd wheats did
seem to do well. I put it down to the roots getiing down to firm soils with non of last years residue mixed in

I think that's definitely something we're going to use the Claydon for more is 2nd wheats. I think zero-till into chopped wheat stubbles is too risky unless drilling very early. Would still like to bale some straw off to try the 750a with because what plants we have established are doing well so far (although admittedly a very dry autumn and early winter). I think also some of our spring barley going into wheat stubbles might be a good place for the Claydon, although not if there is only an inch or so of dry soil on the top.

 

[E_B]

Have spoken to one or two older gents who had a good run direct drilling in the 70s, the consensus (as in the AHDB blog) seems to be the ban on stubble burning and heavier machinery is what killed it. Of course, back then they didn't have Antipodean openers and twitter so they may not have been doing it right.

 

[benferg]

If you could burn stubble it would be a dream to drill into. Even if the fire was a bit average.

At that stage I recon any drill would produce a good result

 

[Kevtherev]

Days of the bettinson DD and the MF 130

 

[Spud]

In my veiw, there can be a tendency to treat any system as a 'cure all', be it direct drilling, or ploughing everything. In my experience, flexibility and a 'field by field' approach (often dictated by soil type and rotational position. I would hazard a guess that this, and probably the burning ban, combined with an increase in brome hampered DD 30yrs ago.

Min til wheat here, is quite successful, as is direct drilled beans, but the plough is the tool before barley.

As for chopping straw, one lesson in recent years is not to overwinter chopped straw on heavy land, it takes far too long to dry up in spring, because the sun cannot get to the soil.

Strategic cover crops work well in some positions, but establishment method, seed mix and drilling date have a big lever on the success (or failure) of them.

 

[Kevtherev]

My view is that both ploughing minimal cultivations and DD all have their place not just one but a mix of all the systems tailored to each farming system.
If glyphosate is banned then it's going to be a bugger

 

[SilliamWhale]

I think its because people werent bothered enough to make it work long term. Seriously diesel was cheap, glyphosate was dearer, labour probably not a problem, plenty of culticavators about, no internet to share the odd problem and it all adds up to "may as well cultivate" whereas now the challenge is "how can i not cultivate and keep productivity high"

The evidence in harry allens book also shows that it did work very well from time to time too

 

[SilliamWhale]

The second link is quite an interesting read with a lot of useful results. Basically it means we should do much better out of zero tillage compared to @Clive, so maybe I should stop complaining about heavy land.

That said, my big lesson from last year is that I think chopping straw might be a problem in some parts of the rotation. I wonder whether baling straw off in front of 2nd wheats might be a good idea.

Id say dont grow a second wheat to start with if you cant bale. Or maybe drill it in februrary. Why are you trying to do one of the hardest jobs first? Why not bale or lightly cultivate this for the first few years and perfect your technique on wheat 1, spring crops and breaks

 

[SilliamWhale]

If you could burn stubble it would be a dream to drill into. Even if the fire was a bit average.

At that stage I recon any drill would produce a good result

It would but things would get a bit hungry after a while and structure of soil would suffer

 

[Clive]

Zero till after cereals is the hardest thing to get right imo especially if your chopping straw

This is pretty much why I grow no second cereals and a lot of spring breaks - rotation is the number 1 contributer to success as far as I'm concerned

I agree with Will that the failures of the past were probably more down to expensive glypho / cheap fuel than any other reason. Also lack of good broome control chemistry would have made life harder back then I guess

Farming has been able to afford cultivation in the past regardless of if it's right or not

 

[mikep]

Is there anyone who tried in the early days having another go now it would be interesting to hear their experiences.
Two differences spring to mind first crop yields were increasing year on year so it could have been difficult to have suffered a yield standstill or decline and as @Kevtherev points out they were the days of bettinson and MF and I know neither would do anything but bounce off my land now. Have our soils deteriorated so much since then?

 

[SilliamWhale]

Zero till after cereals is the hardest thing to get right imo especially if your chopping straw

This is pretty much why I grow no second cereals and a lot of spring breaks - rotation is the number 1 contributer to success as far as I'm concerned

I agree with Will that the failures of the past were probably more down to expensive glypho / cheap fuel than any other reason. Also lack of good broome control chemistry would have made life harder back then I guess

Farming has been able to afford cultivation in the past regardless of if it's right or not

I'm growing a third winter cereal in one field this year though! It was grass for yonks though.

 

[Bury the Trash]

If you could burn stubble it would be a dream to drill into. Even if the fire was a bit average.

At that stage I recon any drill would produce a good result

burning was a useful tool every now and then,...........................but even brexit won't bring that back .

 

[Kevtherev]

Is there anyone who tried in the early days having another go now it would be interesting to hear their experiences.
Two differences spring to mind first crop yields were increasing year on year so it could have been difficult to have suffered a yield standstill or decline and as @Kevtherev points out they were the days of bettinson and MF and I know neither would do anything but bounce off my land now. Have our soils deteriorated so much since then?

Yes I agree machinery has come on a lot since the late 70s nowadays the modern direct drill is totally different from the old bettinson and MF
Also I think agrochemicals are better and the sprayers are better built and more accurate.

 

[BSH]

I think there is a fairly well established principle now that if you want to grow a second cereal you either need to bale the straw from the previous crop or you need to 'sweep' the trash from the seeding area with a tine or row cleaner. `Either that or change your rotation.

I think we also have a better understanding of the damage compaction does. We need to plan to reduce this. A combination of lighter machinery as well as a degree of traffic control need to be planned.

I think in cold spring soils we understand better that we need to wait until soil temps are warmer or use a starter fertiliser if other factors mean that is not possible.

I think there has been a huge amount of progress since the 70's to make no til work and even in the last 5 years in this country there have been significant advances in knowledge which has been widely disseminated thanks to the internet and those who are happy to share their experience.

 

[Feldspar]

I think its because people werent bothered enough to make it work long term. Seriously diesel was cheap, glyphosate was dearer, labour probably not a problem, plenty of culticavators about, no internet to share the odd problem and it all adds up to "may as well cultivate" whereas now the challenge is "how can i not cultivate and keep productivity high"

The evidence in harry allens book also shows that it did work very well from time to time too

If you read the AHDB blog post, the guy they're quoting said the reason he first went to no-till was because he couldn't afford to employ anyone.

 

[benferg]

It would but things would get a bit hungry after a while and structure of soil would suffer

I agree with your comments.

It worked well in nz in our system but we were always going back to 7 years plus of grass rather than being continually cropped.