Why do we import Bacon

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
doesn't matter if thousands or hundreds - if we are going to start taking environment seriously nothing should be moved further than needed

and yes I include cereals in that statement - the only reason to import of export anything should be if "local" alternative is unavailable - the taxation system on imports and exports should be fluid to reflect / enforce this and stop prices rising too far as supply runs out locally

big action but the environment is a BIG problem
The thing is that now, nothing is unavailable, but it may well be unattainable / unaffordable for some, or even most.
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
If we value cheap food and white goods over the value of our environment and the future of the planet we are in a LOT of trouble

This has to change and if that means things get expensive then so be it

I would argue EVERYTHING is far too cheap now, maybe if everything cost more we would all consider much more carefully what we ACTUALLY need ?

Agreed. Far too many things are bought and either not used, thrown away or such. Just not valued. Take free upgrades on phones, or fashion as mentioned earlier. Even the rise in 4x4 vehicles for most families, and increased fuel consumption as a result. Plenty of money (invisibly!) wasted in many different ways trying to keep up with the latest x, y or z. How many items are replaced not because they are broken, but just because they think they need the next bigger/better option.

The increasing cost of labour hasn't helped matters - a broken washing machine now would be a min. £100 callout to even look at it, before parts/labour to fix it.
 

bluebell

Member
and the national beef herd is rapidly shrinking, i wonder why? do you think it could do with it just not worth the time and energy in it for the total lack of return in money?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Agreed. Far too many things are bought and either not used, thrown away or such. Just not valued. Take free upgrades on phones, or fashion as mentioned earlier. Even the rise in 4x4 vehicles for most families, and increased fuel consumption as a result. Plenty of money (invisibly!) wasted in many different ways trying to keep up with the latest x, y or z. How many items are replaced not because they are broken, but just because they think they need the next bigger/better option.

The increasing cost of labour hasn't helped matters - a broken washing machine now would be a min. £100 callout to even look at it, before parts/labour to fix it.


exactly - this is not just about food, food is the tip of the iceberg in reality ! its about how disposable and wealthy society has got, we ALL have far too much, we dispose of resources and ship things all around the world often with no NEED to do so ...................... its simply makes no sense but until it becomes un financially viable for us to behave in the crazy way that we all demand like its some sort of right the planet will suffer

I think the solution lies in massive taxation on fuel globally which will make moving things further than needed very unattractive - this will force markets and manufactures / food producers to focus on local markets more. If other countries like China will not tax fuel we have to tax the imports and if that results in trade wars then we have to learn to become self sufficient

as farmers on a highly populated island we would do ok ! but its not really about US is it
 
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The reason we import so much bacon is because Michael Joplin, a conservative mp got a bill through parliament to ban the use of stalls and tethers to house dry sows in the mid 90’s. Before this there was just shy of 1 million breeding sows in the uk which made us nearly 90% self sufficient in pork products. Just before the legislation was due to come into effect, the Japanese economic crisis happened and the global price of pork crashed, many pig producers were operating on prices of about 60% of the cost of production for an extended period of time because global pig cycles converged to amplify down pressure on price.

Faced with the huge capital cost of complying with the impending legislation and the collapse in price, many smaller and some large high profile producers left the industry and the sow herd dropped to about 500,000 in the space of around 2 years.

If you want someone to blame about the lack of uk pork and bacon blame the Tories, they left the industry high and dry. I have no doubt that in 20 years time we will be telling a similar story about British beef and lamb as a result of this Tory government and Brexit.

Slightly wrong, it was Richard Body's private members bill, Michael Joplin was at MAFF when milk quotas came in iirc.
Just being pedantic as everything else you say is utterly faultless, having survived those years myself as a pig farmer, other woes following on from that time included wasting disease, classical swine fever and FMD.
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
I think the solution lies in massive taxation on fuel globally which will make moving things further than needed very unattractive - this will force markets and manufactures / food producers to focus on local markets more. If other countries like China will not tax fuel we have to tax the imports and if that results in trade wars then we have to learn to become self sufficient

When you consider shipping and aviation are two of the most polluting industries....you're probably not far wrong.

Why should ships be allowed to use (cheap) heavy oil in international waters?
Equally, aviation fuel is taxed minimally too.

Both almost encourage the use - it's cheaper to fly to Spain than drive to Scotland.
It wouldn't surprise me if it's cheaper to ship a leg of lamb in from NZ than from Wales to London too!
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
When you consider shipping and aviation are two of the most polluting industries....you're probably not far wrong.

Why should ships be allowed to use (cheap) heavy oil in international waters?
Equally, aviation fuel is taxed minimally too.

Both almost encourage the use - it's cheaper to fly to Spain than drive to Scotland.
It wouldn't surprise me if it's cheaper to ship a leg of lamb in from NZ than from Wales to London too!
aeroplanes should be taxed out of the sky
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
When I was a child there was a bbc childrens series called The Changes where everyone rose up and destroyed all the machines. It seems this is what is being advocated. I suppose I'd better go out and put the harness on Dobbin though no doubt someone will no doubt have a better Bavarian breed.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
When I was a child there was a bbc childrens series called The Changes where everyone rose up and destroyed all the machines. It seems this is what is being advocated. I suppose I'd better go out and put the harness on Dobbin though no doubt someone will no doubt have a better Bavarian breed.
just get rid of the pointless polluting ones
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
When I was a child there was a bbc childrens series called The Changes where everyone rose up and destroyed all the machines. It seems this is what is being advocated. I suppose I'd better go out and put the harness on Dobbin though no doubt someone will no doubt have a better Bavarian breed.

i'm certainly not advocating that - I juts think its time some common sense was applied to how we happily move stuff around the world at huge environmental cost when in many cases there is absolutely no need

The UK certainly doesn't need lamb, pork or beef imports - we can produce them all here. If that means those meats become more expensive then so be it, they should be if we don't want the true cost of them to become our planet
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
I am not arguing against the fact that food from within the country should be given a priority however I believe that it will be very hard to educate the public. We have gone from a country that ate seasonal food to one that wants to eat the same food in winter as summer so you get Raspberries from Spain, Morocco and Kenya in winter by road ,sea or air. 2-4 tonnes a day of watercress is shipped by air from Orlando to U.K everyday through the winter this is not on special planes but on the same aircraft carrying holidaymakers to Disneyworld(land) it helps keep the cost of peoples holidays down. I think everyone knows how environmentally unsound this is but try getting them to give up their holidays. The guardian readers know they should be eating Lincolnshire cabbage but a pack of tenderstem broccoli is so much easier. Imports are used not to supplement locally produced food but to keep prices in check especially by the supermarkets if potatoes are expensive in the U.K they will be off to Holland or Belgium. Unfortunately food is a commodity and their will be trading to keep prices low so that the general public can go to Spain or get a new iphone. The environment is of the utmost importance but Goverments fall when the price of food goes up so you can guess their priorities
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Slightly wrong, it was Richard Body's private members bill, Michael Joplin was at MAFF when milk quotas came in iirc.
Just being pedantic as everything else you say is utterly faultless, having survived those years myself as a pig farmer, other woes following on from that time included wasting disease, classical swine fever and FMD.

Apologies, yes that's right - Richard Body.
 

bitwrx

Member
Cos everyone in the Charente eats cow meat, and jolly good it is.
Not just cow meat but young (<8 years) beef breed cow meat. the French value taste above anything, so are happy to let stores go off to Italy for fattening.
Tell me more.... I also value taste above all else.
Does anyone know anyone who produces or processes this cow beef? I'm off to France next week and will have a spare few days. I speak French (ish), and would love to do some snooping to find out what they know that I don't.
 

bitwrx

Member
Slightly wrong, it was Richard Body's private members bill, Michael Joplin was at MAFF when milk quotas came in iirc.
Just being pedantic as everything else you say is utterly faultless, having survived those years myself as a pig farmer, other woes following on from that time included wasting disease, classical swine fever and FMD.
I was a teen at the time. Watching my parents go through all that, starting with the dispersal of our dairy herd in '99, was what convinced me that there was no future in farming for me. So I stuck with engineering.

Older and wiser(?) now, I've so far loved my first 4 months back on the farm. By all rational measures, I must be mental.
 

Pond digger

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Location
East Yorkshire
Bacon and Chicken
Surly we would be better feeding our own grain and sending the muck back to the soil
Is it just Superstores or are there other reasons

I was told years ago (by an inelegant and discerning consumer) that Danish bacon was better than ours. I suspect the pigs are pretty much the same, so the difference must be in the curing/processing.
 

Cowcorn

Member
Mixed Farmer
I was told years ago (by an inelegant and discerning consumer) that Danish bacon was better than ours. I suspect the pigs are pretty much the same, so the difference must be in the curing/processing.
Dunno about that everybody has a different idea but all i can tell you when i was a young man i used to breakfast on british real hairy bacon at a cafe used by builders in london . The bacon was delicious crispy and dry with plenty of tasty fat . Maybe the good lady who ran it knew how to grill a rasher but it helped that the bacon was top notch and it was definetly British !!
 
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Following my spell at at agriculture college in the sixties, I worked on a Danish farmer for a couple of months.

The farm had pigs, in fact rather a lot of them. These were slaughtered at a cooperatively owned abattoir. What happened was that a certain % that were to the specification were exported to UK. The poorer carcasses were destined for the home market. Hence it appeared that only quality bacon was produced in Denmark. The Danish Bacon Company did a lot advertising to promote the brand, here in England
 

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