Why is modern machinery so flipping unreliable?!

ACEngineering

Member
Location
Oxon
No and I resent the implication. Even the trained up mechanics from the dealerships are getting fed up with it. You cannot expect a farmer to be an expert in ad-blue injection system sensors. They should just bloody well work.

It's just a general pinion. Doesn't apply to every problem/break down. But it is something I see in some of my customers and many admit it!
 

Roy_H

Member
I know of a retired car mechanic who drives a fairly new car and if he has any problems with it he takes back to the dealer's because as he says " l wouldn't know where to begin !"
 

texelburger

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Herefordshire
I remember back in the late 60's,70's and 80 's when we ran all MF as family members were the local dealers.The 135,165 era were fairly reliable but the 575,590 range were always problematic mainly clutch problems.We had a 590 which had a clutch/ year.Then onto 600 series,we had a 690T seize the engine ploughing and,again,clutch problems.Onto the 80's and we had a 3080,3085 and finally a 3095 and this time the front axle pins would wear causing problems with the axle itself along with gearbox issues.
As @Cowasays modern tractors do a lot more work per year than their predecessors and I think,actually,they're pretty good.
Today we have Kubota's a m7171 and two m7172's all kvt's and although we've had one or two very minor issues nothing has stopped them doing a days work.One is approaching 2000 hours so,admittedly, it's early days.
As for cars,well,back in the 70 and 80's as a youngster I had oldish cars and they were always going wrong.My children also had 2nd/3rd hand cars which were far more reliable than mine were.
I think we look at the old days with rose tinted spectacles.
 
Last edited:
Location
southwest
No manufacturer in their right mind wants to build and sell a machine like a T20 that lasts 50 years, will seldom break down, and can usually be fixed by anyone with a bit of mechanical aptitude. It's just not good for business.

So add lots of gizmos like auto gear change, gps, electric gadgets etc. etc. Suckers will fall for it because it's something to brag about at the pub, (or charge extra for if a contractor) but doesn't really add value or improve the job in value-for-money terms.

If everyone was honest, while they may say a "Stockman's" version is for losers, they know that saving a more gear changes when ploughing/sh!t spreading/baling etc isn't worth the price tag.

If farmers stopped buying over complicated crap, dealers would stop selling it.

But who wants the neighbours ( or favourite son) to think they can't afford the best?
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I don’t think things have got much worse but it would be nice if the manufacturers shared the pain of what are sometimes quite obviously design or manufacturing defects rather than normal wear and tear.
I have replaced the pressure switch on my manitou transmission three times now except last time it failed I screwed a bung in instead. I’ll change the oil and filter religiously.
Another thing that would be helpful would be techical bulletins from the manufacturer to the customer not just the main dealer. We could maybe then anticipate known issues or rectify then before they became a showstopper at a critical time. We found this useful when I worked on gas turbines. We kept the customer informed of known issues so he could replace dodgy items during the next service rather than have an unexpected failure at a critical time and and unscheduled outage.
More openness and honesty would help rather than sweeping issues under the carpet charging us to put right their own mistakes.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
I can't tell whether it's an age thing with me, as opposed to the gear.
Is everything 'best' from some halcyon period in my life?

I wish i could replace the 10 series tractors new, and I wish landrover would supply me with a new non-computerised hi-cap
(got nothing against the 5 cylinder donk, but much preferred 300tdi level of tech.)

but is that cos I wish I was back in my late 30's early 40's, and able to keep going like the clappers?

hmm.
A very high up man in a certain machinery company told me he had argued very hard for a basic 1995 type model to be reintroduced, no electric etc
He got nowhere
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Something else that bugs me is secrecy with workshop manuals. I ordered one from John Deere for my combine years ago but they were never forthcoming. I downloaded one of a website eventually for a few dollars. But what’s the big deal about keeping all the technical info to themselves? I can’t afford to pay their rates for every trivial job and it’s a nuisance if I keep ringing them for settings etc so why don’t the manufacturers make the technical manuals downloadable. Many do , but some don’t.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
No manufacturer in their right mind wants to build and sell a machine like a T20 that lasts 50 years, will seldom break down, and can usually be fixed by anyone with a bit of mechanical aptitude. It's just not good for business.

So add lots of gizmos like auto gear change, gps, electric gadgets etc. etc. Suckers will fall for it because it's something to brag about at the pub, (or charge extra for if a contractor) but doesn't really add value or improve the job in value-for-money terms.

If everyone was honest, while they may say a "Stockman's" version is for losers, they know that saving a more gear changes when ploughing/sh!t spreading/baling etc isn't worth the price tag.

If farmers stopped buying over complicated crap, dealers would stop selling it.

But who wants the neighbours ( or favourite son) to think they can't afford the best?
In a nutshell
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
A very high up man in a certain machinery company told me he had argued very hard for a basic 1995 type model to be reintroduced, no electric etc
He got nowhere

he wouldn’t. Design departments are full of nerds and geeks who have no practical experience whatsoever. I once designed a control and monitoring screen for an LPG plant that used tortoise hare and green/red gauge symbology to indicate the plant parameters instead of rows and rows of meaningless numbers. The Turkish operators could easily understand it. Nearly got the sack though because it was too simple and wasn’t standard. Commissioning engineer slipped me a crate of wine under the desk though when got back.
 
I think it would help if there was a workround designed into my baler and wrapper so that I could at least keep using them, even at a reduced rate, if the electrics failed. The old Welger baler had an electronic box, but if it packed up, you could operate the simple tying mechanism by rigging up a rope pull. With a few minutes thought, you could connect the trip to the pressure arm with a chain so it became completely automatic. The modern baler doesn't seem to have any facility for manual operation. The wrapper is the same, if the box goes on the blink, the whole thing is unusable where the old one could always be worked around with pipes and levers from the shed.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I have done that myself before, all products sold need to be fit for purpose especially given their price. It is surprising how many protections you have as a purchaser but modern kit imo isn’t tested as rigorously as it should be, so often they only have themselves to blame.
Was Ford Selecto-Speed or their parent metal bore engine block tested adequately or even built to last? Was the MF Multi-Power or International Torque Amplifier or the front axle/steering design of MF100 series and JD early 30 series? The Ford large series 30 Funk powershift? And so on and so forth.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Solenoids on new Hollands.
I've had two solenoid failures in the last six months. The PTO engagement on the Fendt Vario transmission went eratic and it had to be replaced. Then the NH range-command had one stick due to a speck of dirt of some kind, which was sorted by removing said speck. Neither being electrical problems but mechanical ones on a hydraulic control valve.
Both brands have newer valves with mesh filters on them, but I've been told that with high hours the mesh itself can break up and cause the valve to fail. Fitted a filtered one to the MF but re-used the non-filtered unit on the NH and both have been fine since.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Was Ford Selecto-Speed or their parent metal bore engine block tested adequately or even built to last? Was the MF Multi-Power or International Torque Amplifier or the front axle/steering design of MF100 series and JD early 30 series? The Ford large series 30 Funk powershift? And so on and so forth.
That gear was cheap and easily fixed apart from funk boxes
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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