Why is this happening????

[yellow belly]

even more criminal to have sprayed wheat for aphids this year, especially recently

if the previous crop is a grass and has lots of aphids the risk is the highest seen crop near wiped out after ploughed grass where the aphids walk from grass to new wheat crop
after a bean or rape break the bydv risk is at its lowest zero risk imho here never seen bydv on notill wheat after a grass free break emerged after 1 October

 

[nick...]

Had no pre ems here and really early crops sprayed after emergence.even one bit is bit of mess as sprayer was close to getting stuck.agrinomist keeps mentioning about spraying the rest but it’s just about all unwalkable and no way it would carry a sprayer without getting stuck.rape was sprayed last Thursday and that made some mess too.im sure the chemical companies have sheds full of sprays to sell and are getting really worried.
Nick...

 

[richard hammond]

Why is it criminal to have sprayed wheat this year,when we have lost deter?

Pre-em???

 

[Gong Farmer]

Absolutely correct ,

You have no black-grass then. Otherwise, what are your 'cheap spring options' for this?

I agree with other sentiment though (again in grass weed situation) - if you can't spray it don't drill it.

 

[robbie]

I appreciate in blackgrass situations you haven't got a choice but to spray it as soon as you've drilled it but to me this year has highlighted how so many farmers blindly follow what there agronomists tell them.

The power some agros have over there clients is quite shocking(mostly but not always serviced) it's almost as if they've been brain washed. I know of many who consult with them before so much as even looking at the field themselves to see if it is workable and as for recs it sho is me how many say " I got a rec from him/her the other day to spray....." and when you ask what was in the mix and what it was for they say "I dont know I just put it on"

 

[ajd132]

I appreciate in blackgrass situations you haven't got a choice but to spray it as soon as you've drilled it but to me this year has highlighted how so many farmers blindly follow what there agronomists tell them.

The power some agros have over there clients is quite shocking(mostly but not always serviced) it's almost as if they've been brain washed. I know of many who consult with them before so much as even looking at the field themselves to see if it is workable and as for recs it sho is me how many say " I got a rec from him/her the other day to spray....." and when you ask what was in the mix and what it was for they say "I dont know I just put it on"

These people can’t really call themselves farmers. If anything they are the ones being being farmed!

 

[Honest john]

I drilled just the one field, 50% seed in open.
Crop will probably fail.
Left the sprayer in shed.

Richard I will PM my NRoSO Nr, for my points.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Err, I sacked my agro recently ( told them I “no longer required their services” ), partly because I can’t afford to keep paying them on a ha rate with no crops / moisture / income, but also because they kept sending me recs for spraying out “weeds” in my fallow, when I was wanting to encourage any growth I could to stop my soils blowing away . . .
you don’t have to do what the agros say, it is only “advice” after all . . .

 

[Farmer Roy]

they also wanted me to spray out patches of wild oats & ryegrass in my chickpeas this year.
I didn't . . .
why bother ?



some may be aware of the situation over here & why I was limiting / questioning ALL spending on crop inputs . . .

 

[Heathland]

Pre-em???

Didn't say pre em with a insecticide,sprayed my wheats on the heath this week with Vigon pre em,yes it made a bit of a mess,I'll put up with it knowing hopefully I won't be pulling b/g in early summer.
Wheat post em got Hallmark in the mix,I've seen the damage BYDV can do.
I wasn't the one who thought banning deter was a good idea,I haven't used a insecticide on my wheat in years,but due to a cock up a couple of years ago on some new bought in spd dressed wheat seed, which was late drilled,it didn't get sprayed with a insecticide,unfortunately it got hammered by BYDV.

I'm just not going to risk it now Deter is gone.............sorry.

 

[Honest john]

Err, I sacked my agro recently ( told them I “no longer required their services” ), partly because I can’t afford to keep paying them on a ha rate but also because they kept sending me recs for spraying out “weeds” in my fallow, when I was wanting to encourage any growth I could to stop my soils blowing away . . .
you don’t have to do what the agros say, it is only “advice” after all . . .

Sorry if I missed it on another thread.

Are you cropping this next season ie for 2020 harvest is it still dry ?

 

[Heathland]

they also wanted me to spray out patches of wild oats & ryegrass in my chickpeas this year.
I didn't . . .
why bother ?



some may be aware of the situation over here & why I was limiting / questioning ALL spending on crop inputs . . .

You have my most sincere sympathy in your impossible situation but thinking outside the box,the wild oats and rye grass will be sucking out much needed moisture for your chickpeas.

Something we are not suffering from up top.

 

[ajd132]

Didn't say pre em with a insecticide,sprayed my wheats on the heath this week with Vigon pre em,yes it made a bit of a mess,I'll put up with it knowing hopefully I won't be pulling b/g in early summer.
Wheat post em got Hallmark in the mix,I've seen the damage BYDV can do.
I wasn't the one who thought banning deter was a good idea,I haven't used a insecticide on my wheat in years,but due to a cock up a couple of years ago on some new bought in spd dressed wheat seed, which was late drilled,it didn't get sprayed with a insecticide,unfortunately it got hammered by BYDV.

I'm just not going to risk it now Deter is gone.............sorry.

Unless you havnt used deter for years you have used an insecticide every single year

 

[ollie989898]

Big range of conditions stuff was/is in. Some fields look ok and a few have been sprayed. Others are far too wet to even walk on.

If you have a serious grass weed burden down here sowing a crop with no autumn treatment will result in glyphosate in spring.

The common theme on here that you can grow crops with no autumn herbicde or aphicide every year makes me chuckle. Serious loss of vigour from pre-ems too..... no I think that is due to it being mauled in.

This smash it all with broadway star in spring would have saved my legs a lot.

 

[warksfarmer]

I have today travelled from Spilsby to Cromer and I cannot believe how many fields of drilled cereal crops have had a pre-em applied in shocking conditions, the crops were obviously only just mauled in (and they look crap) who recd a crop which was likely to fail given the weather conditions to be sprayed with a hold it back weed killer?? Black grass or not this year see a crop before spending money!! By the way the sprayer wheelings are deep and full of H2O what a mess,, CRIMINAL!!

It’s because serviced agronomy company are thieves. They con their customers into buying inputs they don’t need and in fact subsequently create the need for further inputs.
It’s one of the biggest agricultural cons of the last 50 years. They will without doubt end up in mass court cases for crimes against the environment. These companies are why farmers across the globe have a bad name.

 

[Hindsight]

Pre-em???

Hi, you and Heathland seem to be at cross purposes and conflating two issues. I had better explain myself with my earlier reply to you initial post. With reference to Lincolnshire and the rain we have experienced here.

Many if not most of these crops will not have been sprayed for aphids - but a pre-emergence residual herbicide. Think we all know the truth of that though there as been conflated reference to aphid sprays in this thread. And in many (most) cases with hindsight of the subsequent rain fall through November wish we hadn't sprayed those fields drilled. And from conversations I have had this is similar thought from both service and independent agronomists.

But at the time of sowing, mostly in those small windows of odd days in late October/early November, thoughts were focussed on firstly getting in some wheat (in itself in many cases the wrong decision) and secondly the blackgrass situation perceived in individual fields. Ah, hindsight, is so precise.

I have one (quite rare) block of wheat sown 18-20 September which is now well tillered and has not received an aphicide. Near Lincoln for reference. It looks pretty fantastic, like an oasis! In previous years this would have been dressed with Deter and no foliar aphicide even considered.

A recommendation for Lamda Cylohathrin has been on the farm since mid October - as yet not completed. The day or two in late October when it would have travelled the farmer sprayed glyphosate on more bare land ready to drill more barley and wheat and completed applications of clethodim. This is heavy clay loam. Incidentally the one field of barley he sowed after that day has failed - waterlogged and slugs. It did receive Avadex on the drill but no flufanacet residual. Were we wrong in your opinion?

Using the AHDB virus tool those fields are now approaching T340. I did spot an aphid on a rare sunny afternoon when I happened to be walking the far, October 14th if I recall which was confirmed by an entomologist as sitobean aveanea. The Kirton suction trap has low levels virus in the aphids caught.

Weather for aphids since end September has been awful. But this farmer has seen BYDV before and so have I. Farmer intends to spray if at all possible. What would you recommend?

Regards,

 

[Hindsight]

No hindsight was required this year just common sense to see those fields would make you wonder why!!

Point taken. Yes to an extent I concurr but I break it down into periods of time in the torrid 60 days September 22 to November 20, the autumn drilling period. My observation for Lincolnshire was that some farmers decided early that no autumn sowing would occur and with hindsight they made the most sensible decision. Others decided lighter soils would go and pressed on. Others decided to get heavy land in with wheat and barley - for reasons I empathised with - wheat pays more than barley and that be awash with barley in a post Brexit world. Many of these farms pay rent or have contract agreements where wheat is expected. All in all a multitude of different thought processes that led to some folk drilling (loose term for it) wheat / barley in farfrom ideal circumstances and then to have even more subsantial rain fall in the folliwing weeks.

Then we can focus on the agronomists and farmers applying herbicides. I doubt if much if any aphicide has been applied - so the references in this thread are diversionary. Blackgrass as you well know focusses much attention in Lincolnshire. We are told flufanacet works best pre or very early peri emergence. What was an agronomist to say to a customer who has drilled cereal into a field with known blackgrass population.?

The inference from your opening post is first he should not have sown, yes I concurr, but then if had sown no residual heribicide should have been applied, yes, concurr, but what would you have said to a farmer sowing a field with known blackgrass.

As it has turned out, yes many fields are a bl---dy mess. And the herbicide is hurting the wheat - I can see that myself. All in all a pretty awful end to a pretty awful autumn drilling season. Your observations and advice are noted. And I confess to being one of the practitioners and await my comeuppance.

Hey ho. Best wishes, Enjoy reading your posts which are invariably pertinent. And thought provoking.

 

[Heathland]

Unless you havnt used deter for years you have used an insecticide every single year

This is the problem with losing Deter,and overall spraying,I haven't overall sprayed wheat with a insecticide in years.
Major retrograde step backwards.

 

[ajd132]

View attachment 847696
This is the problem with losing Deter,and overall spraying,I haven't overall sprayed wheat with a insecticide in years.
Major retrograde step backwards.

Agree but you still using insecticide.
Agronomy has been based around killing everything every year. It just doesn’t work long term.

 

[Clive]

whoa ...i'm outta arable now so outta the 'loop'....there are lots of emerged crops round here so i was speculating......mind you with the weather/forecast i agree with op...it is probably criminal cos even i remember that many autumn sprays shouldn't be applied if heavy rain expected in next fortnight?

Why is it criminal to have sprayed wheat this year,when we have lost deter?

if the previous crop is a grass and has lots of aphids the risk is the highest seen crop near wiped out after ploughed grass where the aphids walk from grass to new wheat crop
after a bean or rape break the bydv risk is at its lowest zero risk imho here never seen bydv on notill wheat after a grass free break emerged after 1 October

unless you drilled very early (and very few did) AHDB monitoring tools not hit thresholds and then recently frosts

if ever there was a year to get away without then this has been it !

my entire ag Chen spend this autumn has been a few cans of Belkar !