Why is this happening????

[richard hammond]

You have no black-grass then. Otherwise, what are your 'cheap spring options' for this?

I agree with other sentiment though (again in grass weed situation) - if you can't spray it don't drill it.

Point taken. Yes to an extent I concurr but I break it down into periods of time in the torrid 60 days September 22 to November 20, the autumn drilling period. My observation for Lincolnshire was that some farmers decided early that no autumn sowing would occur and with hindsight they made the most sensible decision. Others decided lighter soils would go and pressed on. Others decided to get heavy land in with wheat and barley - for reasons I empathised with - wheat pays more than barley and that be awash with barley in a post Brexit world. Many of these farms pay rent or have contract agreements where wheat is expected. All in all a multitude of different thought processes that led to some folk drilling (loose term for it) wheat / barley in farfrom ideal circumstances and then to have even more subsantial rain fall in the folliwing weeks.

Then we can focus on the agronomists and farmers applying herbicides. I doubt if much if any aphicide has been applied - so the references in this thread are diversionary. Blackgrass as you well know focusses much attention in Lincolnshire. We are told flufanacet works best pre or very early peri emergence. What was an agronomist to say to a customer who has drilled cereal into a field with known blackgrass population.?

The inference from your opening post is first he should not have sown, yes I concurr, but then if had sown no residual heribicide should have been applied, yes, concurr, but what would you have said to a farmer sowing a field with known blackgrass.

As it has turned out, yes many fields are a bl---dy mess. And the herbicide is hurting the wheat - I can see that myself. All in all a pretty awful end to a pretty awful autumn drilling season. Your observations and advice are noted. And I confess to being one of the practitioners and await my comeuppance.

Hey ho. Best wishes, Enjoy reading your posts which are invariably pertinent. And thought provoking.

With reference too your comment about drilling a BG field, I would have still drilled it no Pre-em, but a peri if possible once I know I have a crop worth spending on!! If no peri do the best you can for some sort of harvest, this year it is a percentages game!!

 

[SilliamWhale]

unless you drilled very early (and very few did) AHDB monitoring tools not hit thresholds and then recently frosts

if ever there was a year to get away without then this has been it !

my entire ag Chen spend this autumn has been a few cans of Belkar !

Are you not Avadexing now then?

 

[yellow belly]

Getting off the tread mill is very hard if a field has had the life sprayed out of it
Preventative insecticide most years since grass was ploughed up by the previous generation

looking back I have not sprayed autumn insecticide on wheat or osr since the 1990s
the basis of that was that in later emerged crops if the winter weather was severe enough the aphid did not cause a significant yield loss as my agronomist stated at the time 1000 acres at £ 1 an acre when profits were low was a significant increase in profit
i often drilled end of september stopped growing second wheats and found very few aphids once i had a few years experience with no bydv i became less worried
move to today notill plenty of preditors in evidence spiders and beetles only grow 1st wheat after a non grass break so no risk of aphid walking from grass to crop
when bydv was bad in the early 1980s we grew 2 wheat barley then rape all drilled before mid September the risk fro green bridge was very high

now if I had used deter regularly and had not sprayed inscecticide in the autumn allowing the preditors to return it is likely that later planted ( October) cereals would not need insecticide this year with no drilling could start the build up of predators
for bydv to be widespread it needs a lot of aphids before now so easily found if you can be bothered ( imho many can’t be bothered with looking)

 

[ollie989898]

I don't know how not using any agchem is magically great for the environment? Errrr you are growing a crop in monoculture and annually removing it for your own gain. Whether you plough it, pre-em it, whack it with dursban, temik or aphicide or even set the standing crop on fire is absolutely irrelevant- it is land in production and a million miles away from any natural habitat I know of.

Playing the I don't want to kill everything card is a bit rich given that production agriculture has been doing that since the hand hoe was invented.

If agriculture wants to be as green as possible it should adopt two approaches- produce the maximum economic yield from an area of land OR allow land to return to a completely wilderness state untouched by the hand of man as far as possible, which will eventually become climax forest and support the maximum number of species.

Claiming aphicides are terrible for the environment is like complaining about speeding during an F1 race.

Predators in an arable field, how exactly do these survive passes by combines, cultivators, drills and ring rollers? Ive chanced my arm with BYDV and got away with it before but you din't see me saying aphicides are terrible and no one should use them.

 

[Hindsight]

Agree but you still using insecticide.
Agronomy has been based around killing everything every year. It just doesn’t work long term.

May I ask you to ponder this from another perspective.

Take 10 or 20 or however many farmers that you know, and not just those as environmentally aware and as measured as yourself seem to be. If you know any that is as we all seem to circulate in self selecting groups. And consider their individual reaction come May when BYDV is present in their crops. Now it will depend on the level of BYDV. And that will be variable. Some farmers are OK with it, some aren't. Variable response sometimes. Hey ho.

 

[ajd132]

May I ask you to ponder this from another perspective.

Take 10 or 20 or however many farmers that you know, and not just those as environmentally aware and as measured as yourself seem to be. If you know any that is as we all seem to circulate in self selecting groups. And consider their individual reaction come May when BYDV is present in their crops. Now it will depend on the level of BYDV. And that will be variable. Some farmers are OK with it, some aren't. Variable response sometimes. Hey ho.

I think my point is that our systems have been based around killing everything, always waiting for the next chemical coming along to keep the treadmill going. It seems to me that system is becoming broken (especially now everything is either banned or failing).

 

[ollie989898]

I think my point is that our systems have been based around killing everything, always waiting for the next chemical coming along to keep the treadmill going. It seems to me that system is becoming broken (especially now everything is either banned or failing).

The point is European agriculture has been steered into chasing the rainbow- because subsidies made it possible. This meant people kicked the arris out of the chemical dragon, to the joy of multinational companies worldwide.

Nowhere else in the world has agriculture been pushed to such extremes- the chemical spend is far more restrained because it would have bankrupted them. European agriculture has reached its production zenith and needs a radical reevaluation of how it operates because the margins arent there, farmers are fed up of the existing system and more importantly the chemistry is too expensive to constantly develop new products.

 

[ajd132]

The point is European agriculture has been steered into chasing the rainbow- because subsidies made it possible. This meant people kicked the arris out of the chemical dragon, to the joy of multinational companies worldwide.

Nowhere else in the world has agriculture been pushed to such extremes- the chemical spend is far more restrained because it would have bankrupted them. European agriculture has reached its production zenith and needs a radical reevaluation of how it operates because the margins arent there, farmers are fed up of the existing system and more importantly the chemistry is too expensive to constantly develop new products.

I completely agree. If only more farmers realised this. Stuff like YEN doesn’t help. David walstons 2019 review had a good bit on margins over yield and showed his big decrease in input spend (and lower yields) but higher margins.

 

[Chae1]

Dursban, when it was banned every crop after grass was going to be destroyed by grub.

How many have? I've not lost any. Many used to apply it as a matter of course and thought they couldn't farm without it.

 

[Clive]

Are you not Avadexing now then?

nope - will use nothing at all on wheat until I have a crop in the spring

 

[yellow belly]

nope - will use nothing at all on wheat until I have a crop in the spring

In previous years avadex did as much damage as the weather or slugs in later planted crops
if I could plant now would not use it probably would not use it from November planted
in notill the spraying of roundup after drilling but before emergence is very effective and winter germinating bg is very susceptable to frost and weather
in colder climates even wheat needs to be well established to survive the winter snow needed protect it in extreme cold
September aplied preemergence sprays are more effective in cold winters

 

[John Slejpner]

Sluxx are responsible for some of the OP's observations i suspect.

 

[shakerator]

Sluxx are responsible for some of the OP's observations i suspect.

you think it’s less effective than meta in these conditions ?

 

[John Slejpner]

you think it’s less effective than meta in these conditions ?

No - i should have said slug pelleting.

 

[Brisel]

you think it’s less effective than meta in these conditions ?

No, quite the opposite. Good ferric pellets last longer in these conditions and the consequences of leaching/run off are ok vs metaldehyde.

 

[Lincsman]

Dursban, when it was banned every crop after grass was going to be destroyed by grub.

How many have? I've not lost any. Many used to apply it as a matter of course and thought they couldn't farm without it.

There are plenty still saying they will never be able to harvest anything without a spray of roundup first, despite it being possible for 1000,s of years before.

 

[Lincsman]

Predators in an arable field, how exactly do these survive passes by combines, cultivators, drills and ring rollers? Ive chanced my arm with BYDV and got away with it before but you din't see me saying aphicides are terrible and no one should use them.

Have you not seen ladybirds flying out of your combine tank un-scathed?.. along with flea beetles

 

[Brisel]

There are plenty still saying hey will never be able to harvest anything without a spray of roundup first, despite it being possible for 1000,s of years before.

Ask a Scot how much easier and cheaper it is with pre harvest desiccation!

 

[Farmer Fin]

Ask a Scot how much easier and cheaper it is with pre harvest desiccation!

Would struggle with OSR as everyone around who swathed (not many) had a nightmare as it rained so much after swathing.

Can get a away without on SB. Breeders are staring to shorten growing period after years of increasing to get yields. We only tend to do dirty fields / headlands anyway where grass weeds are an issue. We will need to look at other ways of control. The guys the spray all the SB tend to be late sown and late harvest generally with poorer yields. Sometimes wonder if there calculator is broken anyway.

 

[teslacoils]

In the not distant future, if we even have access to autumn residuals, you will be required to keep more detailed records of weather to avoid spraying when heavy rain is forecast to fall within certainly 48 hours of application.