Wilding

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hi, did you get to find out if the Estate draws the full sub package. SPS then BPS and a HLS agreement. And a full low down on the eco tourism and other non ag development that might be spinning of the project.

While you may well be right with the 'education and learning' side of the project I consider it helpful to the general public to know how this is being funded. If no HLS then good for her. She is probably due the BPS - I will stretch retaining the land in Good Agricultural condition. Thoug I can think of one landowner who had to repay SPS when land in similar condition was deemed ineligible by RPA for SPS.

And what about the planned nearby housing development the Estate objects to. And ideas on where those houses should be located?

In meantime I shall shop in the lower end supermarkets such as Lidl and Morrisons. If the likes of Knebb are the future as planned by UK government I assume my family vittals will come from outside the UK in future.

Best wishes, J
I'm thinking I heard she got dispensation to allow it to go to rough , and still get BPS.

I couldn't care what a rich mans wife does to the soddin heavy clay he could barely earn anything out of.
That's up to them.
And if they can scab loadsa dough from Brussels for it...go yer hardest.

What i detest is the idea that they've re-invented the wheel, and the pompous suggestion that we can all be as rich, clever and beautiful as them if we weren't such stick in the mud fools.
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
I'm thinking I heard she got dispensation to allow it to go to rough , and still get BPS.

I couldn't care what a rich mans wife does to the soddin heavy clay he could barely earn anything out of.
That's up to them.
And if they can scab loadsa dough from Brussels for it...go yer hardest.

What i detest is the idea that they've re-invented the wheel, and the pompous suggestion that we can all be as rich, clever and beautiful as them if we weren't such stick in the mud fools.
that's not the impression I got from reading their book, I think the people who really take the flack are the ecologists and conservationists, and listening to them at Groundswell, I think there is more that could be done for wildlife in the Uk, one thing which I remember was the lack of connective bridges over roads for wildlife which is the fault of our politicians.
 

ajcc

Member
Livestock Farmer
I have just listened to this book on audible. Then I did a search and found this thread! I do have a paper copy but found it hard to read and take in for 10minutes before dropping off at night.
But it passed the time well listening for couple days ploughing this week.
Really striking that ELMs and sfi, stewardship, Countryfile, BBC , NT, Tony Juniper, Greta Thunberg, etc etc must consider this book the modern bible.
Very interesting, very influential listen, more so in 2023 than when this thread was started! (have to confess to not venturing to often into holistic thread area )
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
I have just listened to this book on audible. Then I did a search and found this thread! I do have a paper copy but found it hard to read and take in for 10minutes before dropping off at night.
But it passed the time well listening for couple days ploughing this week.
Really striking that ELMs and sfi, stewardship, Countryfile, BBC , NT, Tony Juniper, Greta Thunberg, etc etc must consider this book the modern bible.
Very interesting, very influential listen, more so in 2023 than when this thread was started! (have to confess to not venturing to often into holistic thread area )
We're watching it unfold before our eyes here.
It's discreetly become 'policy', and what my peers and I do with horn heided yows and hairy cattle stands right in their line of fire.
 

Huno

Member
Arable Farmer
I've just been reading Wilding by Isabella Tree, which is all about turning the 3500 acre Knepp estate over to nature, with the helping hand of a few free-range grazing animals.

TBH, I was expecting to find it all incredibly annoying, it appeared like an attention seeking opportunity for farmer bashing. However, they are farmers, who struggled to make their weald clay pay and they went into the job with eyes wide open and an awful lot of research into rewilding projects around the world. The transformation of the estate in ten years has been remarkable, not just the invasions of keynote species like nightingales, purple emperors and turtle doves, but population explosions of every sort of animal, fungus and plant, all richly interacting with each other, with an absolute minimum of help from humans.

One of the reasons that the project is so pleasing is the way information won here upsets so many of the idiotic 'single issue' options available under ELS/HLS, Countryside Stewardship etc. For instance they're finding that scrubby/shrubby landscapes are far more biodiverse and dynamic than closed canopy woodland, let alone bare pasture or arable land, yet whenever scrubland starts to form we are urged to get the flail/bulldozer out lest we lose some subsidy.

Whatever, I think every farmer would get something out of reading this book. It has opened my eyes to all sorts of things that I'd half-noticed on the farm here and given me lots of ideas for farming better and cheaper whilst making the world a better place. Quite surprising really. Have I got it all wrong?
No you haven't got it all wrong! You mob graze your farm with a lot of humans for 2 days each year and they use more extensive humanity all year round to pay the bills.. Nothing but respect if that opportunity is open to a landowner as it is personal choice but spare a thought for the tenant who are "humanoid stockless" because rules is rules!!
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
The 2 projects don't really compare as far as I'm aware,
and yes, there has been a huge furore in Holland about the photos of loads of dead/emaciated equines -and others- being craned into tippers.
Police preventing locals from chucking hay over the fence if I recall.

On the whole, the Dutch project has done us good, as it's will be useful to hold up the example of what leaving nature to take its course really means.
(mind the rewilders will argue till they turn blue that it wasn't done properly, or somesuch)

Good luck to the Knepp folk. they've the wherewithal to experiment on a grand scale, and have managed to flog books and tourism off the back of it so they can say it's profitable.
But to let anyone claim this is the way forward for the rest of us is hokum. Properly grand scale illusionist HOKUM.
I love they somebody doing something different successfully is always accused of telling everyone else to do the same thing.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
I love they somebody doing something different successfully is always accused of telling everyone else to do the same thing.
The rewilding lobby grows apace Mister, including targeted attacks on yours truly.
My community is being steadily torn asunder by their hokum h0rsesh1t, holding us up as destroyers of nature..

And I have no doubt whatsoever that those kicking us would rate Knepp as a lovely example of how things should be done.....due in no small part to her ladyships self publicity. My feelings are pretty 'unmixed'.
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
my issue is when people find a successful niche they become evangelical that ist the solution for all

No better example than organic food, a great niche , but if we all go organic its no longer a niche and there is no premium so we break it


Kneep isnt really a niche though - its a way of accessing lots of taxpayers sub, that's not a business IMO and its a model that UK farmers should be trying to get away from
I reckon they could just about scrape through without government funding. And anyway, they are technically farmers too with their cattle.

Do you know any farmers who don't access lots of taxpayer's cash?
 
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Location
Suffolk
Knepp is how we farmed or my father farmed in the 60’s and 70’s BEFORE the advent of what is considered ‘modern’ farming, ie massive and then indiscriminate use of chemicals and almost complete destruction/eradication of the wild-life. Including insect predators.
Stubble burning was one of the nastiest, latest way to kill everything in its path plus all those chems folk now know cause truly horrible birth defects but were then considered crop saviours!
Todays agriculture is just starting to come out of the trees with a more considered approach and understanding, finally realising after 60 years that killing everything is not really the way forward.
Simplistic but true.
I was blown away by the book as it ran true to our thoughts and exactly what we have achieved on our tiny piece of cut-up carpet here in EA.
SS
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
The rewilding lobby grows apace Mister, including targeted attacks on yours truly.
My community is being steadily torn asunder by their hokum h0rsesh1t, holding us up as destroyers of nature..

And I have no doubt whatsoever that those kicking us would rate Knepp as a lovely example of how things should be done.....due in no small part to her ladyships self publicity. My feelings are pretty 'unmixed'.
Interesting that you think this is about you and your farm. It certainly made me think differently about mine when I read it.
 
Location
Cheshire
IMO across the board. 😢
ss
So agrochemical’s are responsible for significant birth defects and cancer, based on a notional feeling.
I have to say if you look closer to home to agrochemical users, ie direct close contact with concentrated formulations and similar with dilute solution as applied, they should exhibit these cancers and birth defects to a far greater magnitude than the population at large?
 
Location
Suffolk
So agrochemical’s are responsible for significant birth defects and cancer, based on a notional feeling.
I have to say if you look closer to home to agrochemical users, ie direct close contact with concentrated formulations and similar with dilute solution as applied, they should exhibit these cancers and birth defects to a far greater magnitude than the population at large?
This is a fair comment
Although how does one explain the increase? General air pollution is one and residual chemicals is another.
SS
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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