Will Blockchain herald the end of Red Tractor?

[spin cycle]

what about the electricity consumption? apparently more electricity is being consumed keeping all these blockchain ledgers alive than that produced by all the world's solar panels. So all the progress that has been made with green solar energy has been spunked away on blockchain technologies

feck me if thats true,,,,thats the end of that idea

 

[ollie989898]

what about the electricity consumption? apparently more electricity is being consumed keeping all these blockchain ledgers alive than that produced by all the world's solar panels. So all the progress that has been made with green solar energy has been spunked away on blockchain technologies

How the fudge did you arrive at a train of thought like that??

Blockchain is no different to me or half this forum using OneDrive in terms of environmental footprint.

All way better than sending the shiny shoe brigade out down farm drives in diesel burning Audis.

 

[Chris F]

feck me if thats true,,,,thats the end of that idea

Its not.

 

[bitwrx]

AHDB have demonstrated this in the pig chain with one of the supermarkets and a large pig producer.

IIRC, they used EID to validate DNA carcase records, and blockchain was the thing that they used to keep the records. Apparently, all the records matched up just spiffy.

But apart from some useful management info, I'm not sure what the point was.

I mean, yes you can have an incorruptible record, but of what exactly? And how do you know the inputs aren't corrupt? What is the actual need?

In the pig example above, do you really need to know the genotype of your pork chop? No. So why do you need an incorruptible record of the same.

 

[Scribus]

Two wee niggles -

1. Blockchain is hardly green, it uses a lot of energy. It is estimated that Bitcoin uses more energy than Ireland on an annual basis.

2. Quantum computing will render all encryption obsolete.

 

[Chris F]

I mean, yes you can have an incorruptible record, but of what exactly? And how do you know the inputs aren't corrupt? What is the actual need?

In the pig example above, do you really need to know the genotype of your pork chop? No. So why do you need an incorruptible record of the same.

Personally I don't need to know that. But if I was a member of the public, I'd like to know it came from a farm that met the highest standards. Animal welfare, hygiene, feed quality, etc, etc. The value is in showing where we do a good job and the public paying a higher price.

 

[Bomber_Harris]

Ledgers aren’t consuming the power - it’s mining bitcoin that does that which isn’t quite the same thing

The word blockchain and bitcoin have become synonymous but are not exactly the sane thing

ah sorry, I've no idea what this Red Tractor thing is that you all speak of. I thought this was a crytocurrency thing.

And yes the energy consumption of bitcoin and the other crytocurrencies is unsustainable. If it was common knowledge there would be public outrage imo

 

[bitwrx]

How the fudge did you arrive at a train of thought like that??

Blockchain is no different to me or half this forum using OneDrive in terms of environmental footprint.

All way better than sending the shiny shoe brigade out down farm drives in diesel burning Audis.

Not quite true. Maintaining a blockchain does require some fairly hefty cryptography, which requires energy.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...e-a-single-bitcoin-in-your-country-2018-03-06

 

[Scribus]

what about the electricity consumption? apparently more electricity is being consumed keeping all these blockchain ledgers alive than that produced by all the world's solar panels. So all the progress that has been made with green solar energy has been spunked away on blockchain technologies

Beat me to it!

I found this after about two seconds of searching.

Every transaction on the bitcoin network uses up the amount of energy sufficient to power more than eight U.S. households for a day!

 

[Chris F]

Two wee niggles -

1. Blockchain is hardly green, it uses a lot of energy. It is estimated that Bitcoin uses more energy than Ireland on an annual basis.

2. Quantum computing will render all encryption obsolete.

Two things - firstly blockchain and bitcoin mining aren't the same thing. As already stated above. Blockchain is just a method of storing info. Like a hard drive, but simulatneous stored in 1000s of places on the internet. Secondly, quantum computing still wouldn't allow all records to be simultaneously changed. if it did, there would be bigger problems in the world.

 

[ollie989898]

feck me if thats true,,,,thats the end of that idea

Its utterly erroneous.

How is storing data in datacentres any worse than 30,000 farmers doing the same on their own PCs or writing millions of pieces of paper in a few thousand filing cabinets in the average mountain of paperwork contained in the average farm office??

This novel idea could save farmers and buyers a considerable amount of time and expense. No more: 'where is your medicine book, Mr farmer?' Or 'where are your movement records?'

The answer would be the same irrespective of the question- 'here is my holding number go and find out yourself from my blockchain and stop wasting my time'.

Any required inspections can also be logged, name of inspector, date, time, any non compliances all entered without you having to do a thing.

Chem records automatically uploaded, medicine used, fertiliser applied, any fallen stock entered by the knackerman using his phone... farmer only does his own bit. Sounds good to me.

 

[Clive]

Beat me to it!

I found this after about two seconds of searching.

Every transaction on the bitcoin network uses up the amount of energy sufficient to power more than eight U.S. households for a day!

Not the same thing at all- bitcoin is just one (well known) use of blockchain, mining crypto currency is power hungry, keeping ledgers (records of wallets) uses very little resources

But a little knowledge .....

 

[ollie989898]

Not quite true. Maintaining a blockchain does require some fairly hefty cryptography, which requires energy.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...e-a-single-bitcoin-in-your-country-2018-03-06

Ha ha ha ok so they will need to use military grade cryptography to secure someones farm assurance records... bitcoin or similar needs insane security because it holds the keys to serious sums of money in a form that is very very attractive to criminals. Its better than 50 million in 50s you have sat in a legit bank account. Untraceable.

Passwords seem to work fine for most other things.

 

[Clive]

Its utterly erroneous.

How is storing data in data centres any worse than 30,000 farmers doing the same on their own PCs or writing millions of pieces of paper in a few thousand filing cabinets in the average mountain of paperwork contained in the average farm office??

This novel idea could save farmers and buyers a considerable amount of time and expense. No more: 'where is your medicine book, Mr farmer?' Or 'where are your movement records?'

The answer would be the same irrespective of the question- 'here is my holding number go and find out yourself from my blockchain and stop wasting my time'.

Any required inspections can also be logged, name of inspector, date, time, any non compliances all entered without you having to do a thing.

Chem records automatically uploaded, medicine used, fertiliser applied, any fallen stock entered by the knackerman using his phone... farmer only does his own bit. Sounds good to me.

You get it at least !

Less physical inspections also equals less time wasted and less inspectors which all saves us money

Standards higher as physical inspections targeted where needed based on algorithms using data entered to make better and more consistent decisions

 

[bitwrx]

Personally I don't need to know that. But if I was a member of the public, I'd like to know it came from a farm that met the highest standards. Animal welfare, hygiene, feed quality, etc, etc. The value is in showing where we do a good job and the public paying a higher price.

How would a blockchain help that consumer? It's not levels of trust that red tractor lacks. It's consumers that actually give a f**k.

But really, in practice, how would a blockchain make anything different? Can you give me a practical example of a record that a) needs to be incorruptible; b) is currently corruptible; and c) wouldn't be corruptible if it were stored on a blockchain?

 

[Chris F]

Not quite true. Maintaining a blockchain does require some fairly hefty cryptography, which requires energy.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...e-a-single-bitcoin-in-your-country-2018-03-06

That article is about mining bitcoin. We aren't talking about that. We aren't talking about bitcoin at all. We certainly aren't talking about military grade encryption (back to Terminator 3 again).

 

[bitwrx]

Ha ha ha ok so they will need to use military grade cryptography to secure someones farm assurance records...

Passwords seem to work fine for most other things.

Fair point. Stand corrected.

 

[Chris F]

How would a blockchain help that consumer? It's not levels of trust that red tractor lacks. It's consumers that actually give a fudge.

But really, in practice, how would a blockchain make anything different? Can you give me a practical example of a record that a) needs to be incorruptible; b) is currently corruptible; and c) wouldn't be corruptible if it were stored on a blockchain?

Read up to post 31.

Read any of many threads on here about Red Tractor and record keeping.

 

[ollie989898]

How would a blockchain help that consumer? It's not levels of trust that red tractor lacks. It's consumers that actually give a fudge.

But really, in practice, how would a blockchain make anything different? Can you give me a practical example of a record that a) needs to be incorruptible; b) is currently corruptible; and c) wouldn't be corruptible if it were stored on a blockchain?

There are systems that are virtually incorruptible already. Your hotmail or gmail account is held by a massive company using systems which are virtually inpossibe to hack conventionally. So people have to try to con your password out of you to gain access.

A block chain offers even better security and whats more the data has little value- who the hell would want to steal your medicine book or spray records today? Its meaningless except to the legitimate agencies or individuals that want it.

 

[Scribus]

Two things - firstly blockchain and bitcoin mining aren't the same thing. As already stated above. Blockchain is just a method of storing info. Like a hard drive, but simulatneous stored in 1000s of places on the internet. Secondly, quantum computing still wouldn't allow all records to be simultaneously changed. if it did, there would be bigger problems in the world.

Mmmm... Not convinced TBH. If the information is stored in 1000's of places then surely those 1000's of places must be accessed? No doubt that those 1000's of places rely on a power supply, so if you had 10,000 servers or databases holding that information that's 9,999 extra power supplies required above and beyond the primary computer.

I think the jury is still very much out on the effect of quantum computing when it arrives as a practical proposition, it has a lot of folk worried.