Will Scotland vote Leave ?

[X344chap]

Not at all.
Just curious as to what was required for those onetime colonies to vote on independance, as I am sure there would have been a great number of naysayers in certain parts then to.
The experience of Zimbabwe that Lowland1 brings up is an example of why the UK government did not allow independance due to a form of apartheid, hence arguably the messy state of affairs for many a long year prior to UDI and post.
Canada, Newfoundland,Brunei Ghana etc etc what did they have to satisfy to vote on self determination?

Giving the British army a good kicking at the battle of Yorktown worked for the Americans.

 

[Henarar]

The right sort

But what sort of sort of what are you voting for

 

[Henarar]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=4062165703830031&id=798029523577015

 

[Muck Spreader]

Just like you in France then. Same boat and all that

Except France in the boat and the UK is clinging to the side.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Erm, no we don’t.

Coinage system a better word then?

 

[Muck Spreader]

Giving the British army a good kicking at the battle of Yorktown worked for the Americans.

Which Ironically was largely a victory achieved by the French forces supporting the Revolutionaries.

 

[arcobob]

Which Ironically was largely a victory achieved by the French forces supporting the Revolutionaries.

What happened in the next 100 years?

 

[Highland Mule]

Coinage system a better word then?

It’s more accurate, but irrelevant to your discussion. Unless a country has the ability to print more money, control interest rates etc., it’s not so much that it has a currency as it’s using one.

We have many “coinage systems” - speak to an exporter in the lamb trade and they will cite prices in euros, as that’s the currency they use for day to day transactions. Others will have Bitcoin or US dollars, maybe barrels of oil too for the industry insiders. If Scotland becomes independent, we might as well use the bent button as the pound Sterling, euro or dollar. Using a coinage system is meaningless for fiscal control.

 

[Muck Spreader]

What happened in the next 100 years?

Not sure what you mean. After the British surrender loyalists mostly migrated to Canada to start new lives there with an uneasy truce, several wars and skirmishes with the fledgling US over the coming decades. France eventually had to sell its half of North America to the US government in order to help pay off its massive debts fighting wars in Europe and America.

 

[Muck Spreader]

It’s more accurate, but irrelevant to your discussion. Unless a country has the ability to print more money, control interest rates etc., it’s not so much that it has a currency as it’s using one.

We have many “coinage systems” - speak to an exporter in the lamb trade and they will cite prices in euros, as that’s the currency they use for day to day transactions. Others will have Bitcoin or US dollars, maybe barrels of oil too for the industry insiders. If Scotland becomes independent, we might as well use the bent button as the pound Sterling, euro or dollar. Using a coinage system is meaningless for fiscal control.

Scotland did run its own separate and robust financial system using sterling until the middle of the 19th century when a parliamentary act was passed making all Scottish banks subordinate to the Bank of England.

 

[arcobob]

Not sure what you mean. After the British surrender loyalists mostly migrated to Canada to start new lives there with an uneasy truce, several wars and skirmishes with the fledgling US over the coming decades. France eventually had to sell its half of North America to the US government in order to help pay off its massive debts fighting wars in Europe and America.

Well the Seven Years War and the Indian Wars were all about imperial power struggles which were settled by the Treaty of Paris but the French were not happy and gave support to the US independence movement. Eventually, as you rightly say, the French sold Louisiana to the Americans. Louisiana comprised about 30% of the total land mass and covered a far bigger area than the present state of that name. The American civil war which was really unconnected turned out to be the bloodiest war in history according to many but the point I am making is that the building of a state without conflict is not easily won. The republic of Ireland suffered a similar fate in the last century because of intense disagreement about the partition and who is to say that the formation of an independent Scotland will not revive centuries old rivalries.
Before anybody thinks this is wishful thinking the independence issue is already becoming extremely divisive in much the same way that Brexit has. Unfortunately the power hungry politicians and the media are stirring the pot.

 

[Highland Mule]

Scotland did run its own separate and robust financial system using sterling until the middle of the 19th century when a parliamentary act was passed making all Scottish banks subordinate to the Bank of England.

We had many things previously, but times have moved on and the fiscal policies and arrangements for note issue in the mid 19th century is irrelevant to modern times. You stated above that Scotland has a current financial system, but we don't.

 

[glasshouse]

Scotland is not and was never colonised.

If the parcel of rogues hadnt signed the treaty of union on 1707, invasion and colonisation was imminent.
We are to all intents and purposes a colony.

 

[glasshouse]

It’s more accurate, but irrelevant to your discussion. Unless a country has the ability to print more money, control interest rates etc., it’s not so much that it has a currency as it’s using one.

We have many “coinage systems” - speak to an exporter in the lamb trade and they will cite prices in euros, as that’s the currency they use for day to day transactions. Others will have Bitcoin or US dollars, maybe barrels of oil too for the industry insiders. If Scotland becomes independent, we might as well use the bent button as the pound Sterling, euro or dollar. Using a coinage system is meaningless for fiscal control.

I always laugh at the thought of an independent scotland not having any fiscal control if we used the pound.
We have no fiscal control now or ever.

 

[kfpben]

I always laugh at the thought of an independent scotland not having any fiscal control if we used the pound.
We have no fiscal control now or ever.

Scotland would have plenty of fiscal input into the U.K. treasury if it stopped returning MPs who wanted to break up the country.
I recall a Scot Gordon Brown being Chancellor followed by Prime Minister 1997-2010

 

[glasshouse]

Scotland would have plenty of fiscal input into the U.K. treasury if it stopped returning MPs who wanted to break up the country.
I recall a Scot Gordon Brown being Chancellor followed by Prime Minister 1997-2010

For gods sake.
Gordon brown ran the evonomy to benefit the south east of england, same as every chancellor.
It was him to turned me into an snp voter when he doubled the duty on white deisel in 1999 which sparked the fuel protest.
That was a spectacular own goal which ruined large areas of remote scotland rendering transport of livestock goods and people prohibitive.
A prime example of a policy to suit the south east and to hell with the rest

 

[essexpete]

There was a country called Czechoslovakia. It was ruled over by the ussr. With the falling of the Berlin Wall Czechoslovakia was finally free again. But no, much to the astonishment of the Czechs, the Slovaks wanted to be their own little country rather than be a third of the bigger country. Now, Slovakia only has some 5 million, not much industry (it was all in the Czech part), no coast and basically just a load of mountains.
Anyway, split they did and all are hunky dory. If some little old commie countries can get around these issues and make it work, then surely the great might of the uk will make it a walk in the park?

Have you been to Slovakia?

 

[czechmate]

Have you been to Slovakia?

Funnily enough, not quite.
CR many time, including Moravia which by all accounts is closer to Slovakia than Bohemia

 

[X344chap]

Well the Seven Years War and the Indian Wars were all about imperial power struggles which were settled by the Treaty of Paris but the French were not happy and gave support to the US independence movement. Eventually, as you rightly say, the French sold Louisiana to the Americans. Louisiana comprised about 30% of the total land mass and covered a far bigger area than the present state of that name. The American civil war which was really unconnected turned out to be the bloodiest war in history according to many but the point I am making is that the building of a state without conflict is not easily won. The republic of Ireland suffered a similar fate in the last century because of intense disagreement about the partition and who is to say that the formation of an independent Scotland will not revive centuries old rivalries.
Before anybody thinks this is wishful thinking the independence issue is already becoming extremely divisive in much the same way that Brexit has. Unfortunately the power hungry politicians and the media are stirring the pot.

Not easily won - but worth achieving - just ask the Americans.

 

[tje]

I don't the Native Americans would share your view , the loyalist who were kicked out and the Blacks who were kept as slaves .

Not easily won - but worth achieving - just ask the Americans.