Will you be looking to take part in the future SFI/ELMS scheme? - 7/12/21

[Jackov Altraids]

There is always some clause about keeping stock off for so many weeks, etc that make it awkward. We looked at herbal leys in CS but more than likely the ewes and lambs would have to kept off it at their time if greatest need.
Then there is the 70% cover requirement in SFI. Quite subjective as what is actually meant by that and unachievable here with most autumn sown crops or stubble natural greening up.
Not worth the bother for us on a small acreage. Too inflexible.

In practice, much of my low/ no input grassland is cut when circumstances allow, probably once in every 5 years. It then gets a good dose of muck.
It could be at any time from May to September and the fact that conditions allow is what makes it successful, agriculturally and environmentally. It's how these habitats have been maintained for generations.
This is best practice. It wouldn't be possible under ELMS.

 

[tinsheet]

This was my initial thought but those little changes would cost me as much as I would potentially gain.
And that doesn't even start to take into account the time and stress involved.
The first headache is that the majority of the farm is permanent pasture and I'm not sure it qualifies as either improved grassland or low or no-input grassland

if it gets dung/fertilizer/lime every year or so and grass harrowed, it's improved isn't it,
I've argued this and it's been excepted, few years back mind

 

[yellow belly]

you can do both

But not if you use the same options on the same land
better to use the system we know and use now which for example currently pays for cover crops on a proportion of my land

 

[Henarar]

But not if you use the same options on the same land
better to use the system we know and use now which for example currently pays for cover crops on a proportion of my land

so you will be ok for SFI then as you have green cover

 

[teslacoils]

I'm not interested in signing any agreement with any govt agency for these payment rates. The basic level is simply not worth it.

My mid tier expires in Dec 22, so choices will be a new stewardship scheme on 2/3 of my land (pipe and slippers option) or plough it all up and go 100 percent arable (post bps ride the wave option).

I don't especially like the way CSS is balanced towards the DEFRA, but at least they pay for it. For me there is a certain pull towards zero public money. If I can remove red tractor too, it will be the Promised Land of UK farming.

 

[rijowi64]

The thing that strikes most fear in me is the continued use of remote sensing. I may be wrong but I believe this was first carried out by OS and resulted in absolute mayhem which left us to prove them incorrect on every small detail with copious RLE1 forms etc. This was so frustrating and inconvenient then that I can’t believe I would line myself up for more misery now. So appalling was the OS’s work that it must be said, in any other industry, they would never have been paid for such error-strewn work that was not fit for purpose.

 

[chipchap]

It possibly boils down to how profitable food production proves to be as the BPS is phased out.

Somehow I feel grain and meat prices will provide a buoyant enough income to make application to these payment schemes financially unnecessary.

 

[teslacoils]

The thing that strikes most fear in me is the continued use of remote sensing. I may be wrong but I believe this was first carried out by OS and resulted in absolute mayhem which left us to prove them incorrect on every small detail with copious RLE1 forms etc. This was so frustrating and inconvenient then that I can’t believe I would line myself up for more misery now. So appalling was the OS’s work that it must be said, in any other industry, they would never have been paid for such error-strewn work that was not fit for purpose.

And the onus was on the farmer to put it right. There was/is zero trust.

 

[redsloe]

Lob some mustard seed on the stubble wit a slug pelleter for about a fiver an acre, then graze it (if you have stock) or spray (just a sniff needed) and DD into it. OM added with minimal cost.

What's obvious here is that a lot of people are actively trying to find fault with the options, that's fair enough I guess.
By luck I'm doing all the things suggested anyway so will look closer at it when the time comes.
I think payment rates will increase as BPS reduces so small payment rates currently will look attractive in a couple of years and folks maybe more keen.

The less that get involved should mean more for those that do.

 

[yellow belly]

And the onus was on the farmer to put it right. There was/is zero trust.

Remote sensing in 2020s is light years ahead of what it was 15 years ago

 

[teslacoils]

Remote sensing in 2020s is light years ahead of what it was 15 years ago

They won't need to remote sense anything here as I won't be doing it.

 

[Wombat]

Remote sensing in 2020s is light years ahead of what it was 15 years ago

Yes they have moved from the C64 to Amiga ............ Maybe in another 10yrs it might get to 486 level of remote sensing for them and they might be able to work out what a hedge looks like

 

[farmerm]

It possibly boils down to how profitable food production proves to be as the BPS is phased out.

Somehow I feel grain and meat prices will provide a buoyant enough income to make application to these payment schemes financially unnecessary.

Well the historic averages over the last 20 years would point to the buoyancy of a single arm band, whether or not that will be enough to keep afloat will depend on how much weight a business carries....

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I think thats the crucial issue - there's so much thats utterly unknowable in all this, you're making commitments for 3 years with no way of knowing if the weather gods or nature will play ball, and at any point some clipboard holder with a chip on his shoulder can descend on you and declare that what you've done is not satisfactory and demand all the money back.

That was my worry about how to classify my pasture.
I know which is low-input and which is improved but if I had an inspection today, they could quite possibly declare any of it as either under the guidance.
I'm not sure where that would leave me?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

if it gets dung/fertilizer/lime every year or so and grass harrowed, it's improved isn't it,
I've argued this and it's been excepted, few years back mind

It would be no input 4 years out of 5 [see post 41].
No/low input can be worth almost 50% extra.
Which way would you argue?

To complicate things further, I have a very real worry that land declared as no/low input will be restricted from increased use in the future.

 

[tinsheet]

It would be no input 4 years out of 5 [see post 41].
No/low input can be worth almost 50% extra.
Which way would you argue?

To complicate things further, I have a very real worry that land declared as no/low input will be restricted from increased use in the future.

Depends on your farm, mine being a hill farm, some of it to steep to improve etc, will look at it field by field.
devils in the detail.

 

[Goweresque]

SFI X 1,000 acres = worth the bother. SFI X someone with say 100 acres = not worth the bother.

Not necessarily. The money goes up with acreage but so does the bother, as the schemes are all % based. The 1000 acre farmer has got to put OM on 330 acres, instead of 33 for the 100 acre guy.

My feeling is that those who are already doing this sort of thing will take it up as its free money for them, but its not enough money to make people who operate different systems (often for very practical soil/terrain/weather based reasons) change.

 

[Vader]

The demand for food will exceed supply. It's just a question of when.

If that muppet Boris gets his way soon.
Woodland and rewilding everywhere...

 

[Barleymow]

Thats not an application, chaff is as your applying it with the combine

Hmm need someone to convert a combine to a muck spreader,Ime sure it would be possible with some clever engineering

 

[topground]

If that muppet Boris gets his way soon.
Woodland and rewilding everywhere...

Carrie Antoinette “ let them eat woodchip”