Will's Interesting Links Page

p.s. the best thing any farmer can do would be to purchase a no till drill because until he has one he's not going to be able to do any no till, and not only that (shhh, not many people seem to have twigged this bit!) - a no till drill can drill into conventional and min till seedbeds as well!:)
And that's the way I hope we can go. I have been extremely pleased with our 750a trial (except there was more black-grass germinating that I had hoped for), and even my father is having a difficult time saying that it hasn't worked properly.
 
And that's the way I hope we can go. I have been extremely pleased with our 750a trial (except there was more black-grass germinating that I had hoped for), and even my father is having a difficult time saying that it hasn't worked properly.

A 750 and the Sumo GLS with an extra leg is a nice combination for starting off.

(as would be a weaving - one for sale in classified)

Another option may be swap fathers for a while. I've worn mine down now, do you want me to have a crack at yours?
 
A 750 and the Sumo GLS with an extra leg is a nice combination for starting off.

(as would be a weaving - one for sale in classified)

Another option may be swap fathers for a while. I've worn mine down now, do you want me to have a crack at yours?
I think we would probably retain mole draining in the short term (we don't subsoil) which might be a bit challenging (works fine higher disturbance DDing, but not quite so sure about no-till), and probably rotational ploughing as well at least in some areas, to keep everyone satisfied.

What he really needs is a bit more of the @Simon Chiles treatment. He had a small dose at the ProCam cover crop day but I think he's recovered now.
 
I think we would probably retain mole draining in the short term (we don't subsoil) which might be a bit challenging (works fine higher disturbance DDing, but not quite so sure about no-till), and probably rotational ploughing as well at least in some areas, to keep everyone satisfied.

What he really needs is a bit more of the @Simon Chiles treatment. He had a small dose at the ProCam cover crop day but I think he's recovered now.
I have only mole drained once but I couldn't where we had been after so don't see it should make much difference.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
And that's the way I hope we can go. I have been extremely pleased with our 750a trial (except there was more black-grass germinating that I had hoped for), and even my father is having a difficult time saying that it hasn't worked properly.
Trial on you own farm better than any paper you could read

I wouldn't expect grass weed improvements in the first year or so, but I would be surprised if your situation doesn't improve longer term
 

shakerator

Member
Location
LINCS
Still not convinced of N efficacy of no till in winter crops.

Legumes yes cereals with composts/ manures yes, crops after leys yes

But

Heavy land denitrification risk higher?

Evidence that OM builds and N released in future years? Mixed

Chemical nitrogen is generally unhelpful to many biological processes, and my gut is it might work (be controlled) better in a sterilised (ploughed) system. Residual herbicides certainly do. But then you have a crop growing in loose soil over winter with minimal rooting and rain washing everything away with no weeds to capture leached nutrient.


Glyphosate better than tillage? Debatable !

It's probably the learning curve....but in winter cereals I feel you have to try 10 times as hard to achieve the same no till yield as tilled....

Spring crops a completely different kettle of fish.

My wish list:

Set of shades which when you look at a no till field remove all residue and replace with black soil.

A sign next to every field explaining how much it has cost you to get the crop to that stage!

A year out to cover crop and manure the whole place.


!!'
 
Still not convinced of N efficacy of no till in winter crops.

Legumes yes cereals with composts/ manures yes, crops after leys yes

But

Heavy land denitrification risk higher?

Evidence that OM builds and N released in future years? Mixed

Chemical nitrogen is generally unhelpful to many biological processes, and my gut is it might work (be controlled) better in a sterilised (ploughed) system. Residual herbicides certainly do. But then you have a crop growing in loose soil over winter with minimal rooting and rain washing everything away with no weeds to capture leached nutrient.


Glyphosate better than tillage? Debatable !

It's probably the learning curve....but in winter cereals I feel you have to try 10 times as hard to achieve the same no till yield as tilled....

Spring crops a completely different kettle of fish.

My wish list:

Set of shades which when you look at a no till field remove all residue and replace with black soil.

A sign next to every field explaining how much it has cost you to get the crop to that stage!

A year out to cover crop and manure the whole place.


!!'
Interestingly I find winter cereals pretty easy. It also gets easier over time. Cereals into either rape stubble or bean stubble is pretty simple. I love looking at the residue around the crops - nothing gets all claggy and sticks to your feet. I honestly don't think no till yields average lower than any other, apart from possibly spring barley sometimes but I don't treat it well enough in the rotation.

I don't notice residual herbicides being less effective - in a few situations there isn't a lot of residue anyway (after most broadleaves)

I don't find WOSR terribly easy, but I will adapt again this year and add a bit more fert with the seed (if I can get enthused to grow it). This years harvest will be interesting. Spring rape - fussy.

Spring Wheat is easy. Spring Barley a bit fussy.

Winter and Spring beans seem easy enough. In fact I'm only in my first year of beans but they seem to be very happy no tilled.

Roundup vs Tillage. Interesting times. I would say a 3l/ha dose of roundup is probably better than ploughing to 7" and power harrowing etc. but a light cultivation may be better than a dose of roundup. That said its not really an either/or situation a lot of times with people choosing to till multiple times and seemingly nowadays use roundup multiple times too! Its the question about in crop herbicides vs tine weeding and hand picking really, which one would you prefer to use on your own place?
 

shakerator

Member
Location
LINCS
Interestingly I find winter cereals pretty easy. It also gets easier over time. Cereals into either rape stubble or bean stubble is pretty simple. I love looking at the residue around the crops - nothing gets all claggy and sticks to your feet. I honestly don't think no till yields average lower than any other, apart from possibly spring barley sometimes but I don't treat it well enough in the rotation.

I don't notice residual herbicides being less effective - in a few situations there isn't a lot of residue anyway (after most broadleaves)

I don't find WOSR terribly easy, but I will adapt again this year and add a bit more fert with the seed (if I can get enthused to grow it). This years harvest will be interesting. Spring rape - fussy.

Spring Wheat is easy. Spring Barley a bit fussy.

Winter and Spring beans seem easy enough. In fact I'm only in my first year of beans but they seem to be very happy no tilled.

Roundup vs Tillage. Interesting times. I would say a 3l/ha dose of roundup is probably better than ploughing to 7" and power harrowing etc. but a light cultivation may be better than a dose of roundup. That said its not really an either/or situation a lot of times with people choosing to till multiple times and seemingly nowadays use roundup multiple times too! Its the question about in crop herbicides vs tine weeding and hand picking really, which one would you prefer to use on your own place?

Good post

To be honest I think you're right.
I have made no till work well this year, but know I can't next year with grass seed return without tillage. The only way I could carry through into year 4/5 is 100% spring crop! and focus on manure spreading in the autumn. It seems the logical thing to do, and would be more profitable gross margin wise I'm sure.
If I'd used Atlantis and stacked pre ems last autumn across the board I could prob go again with a no till winter cereal regime.

We will see....perhaps a wet autumn will force ones hand....

I know Richard Harding talked at BASE about how winter cereals may be a poor use of our soil /nutrient resources I think he was making a great point
 
Good post

To be honest I think you're right.
I have made no till work well this year, but know I can't next year with grass seed return without tillage. The only way I could carry through into year 4/5 is 100% spring crop! and focus on manure spreading in the autumn. It seems the logical thing to do, and would be more profitable gross margin wise I'm sure.
If I'd used Atlantis and stacked pre ems last autumn across the board I could prob go again with a no till winter cereal regime.

We will see....perhaps a wet autumn will force ones hand....

I know Richard Harding talked at BASE about how winter cereals may be a poor use of our soil /nutrient resources I think he was making a great point

Have you seen that post about spring barley costs though?!

Are you saying you've got a lot of grass weeds in current crops that you don't think you can control? Would these be in all crops or just cereals? And would they be in winter and spring crops? (maybe I'm presuming?)

Are you finding it impossible to control grasses in beans and rape despite using a range of nirvana, kerb and falcon? (are we talking blackgrass in the main?)

I'm not in grass free heaven either by the way. Its not bad thanks to not knowing what blackgrass looks like but its not brilliant. I can control most things in wheat, but I'm really lacking something for spring and winter barley's but they do seem to compete better..

I still feel a couple of years grazing/silage is going to be my get out of jail card around the rotation though and I realise boys in the east don't have that (but probably should)
 

shakerator

Member
Location
LINCS
Have you seen that post about spring barley costs though?!

Are you saying you've got a lot of grass weeds in current crops that you don't think you can control? Would these be in all crops or just cereals? And would they be in winter and spring crops? (maybe I'm presuming?)

Are you finding it impossible to control grasses in beans and rape despite using a range of nirvana, kerb and falcon? (are we talking blackgrass in the main?)

I'm not in grass free heaven either by the way. Its not bad thanks to not knowing what blackgrass looks like but its not brilliant. I can control most things in wheat, but I'm really lacking something for spring and winter barley's but they do seem to compete better..

I still feel a couple of years grazing/silage is going to be my get out of jail card around the rotation though and I realise boys in the east don't have that (but probably should)
Yes

No accase activity on black grass

Kerb ok but once spring comes there is still a Seedbank waiting.

Have double breaked and still have black grass. Less in spring bar/ oats.

In no doubt we could no till easily with more enterprises. But then wouldn't have time .....

But risk of ponding still higher in no till on clay here despite compost and manures / gypsum applied and great drain holes on the surface. Sometimes wonder whether to just subsoil low spots only and hammer them with compost. This is why I find spring no till such a winner on heavy land but winter crops not.

Would like to try pasture cropping in black grass patches. Or try and grow a spring cereal around a perennial warm season grass?

If your getting ponding there's definite denitrification which is not a facet no till wants to showcase....
 
Yes

No accase activity on black grass

Kerb ok but once spring comes there is still a Seedbank waiting.

Have double breaked and still have black grass. Less in spring bar/ oats.

In no doubt we could no till easily with more enterprises. But then wouldn't have time .....

But risk of ponding still higher in no till on clay here despite compost and manures / gypsum applied and great drain holes on the surface. Sometimes wonder whether to just subsoil low spots only and hammer them with compost. This is why I find spring no till such a winner on heavy land but winter crops not.

Would like to try pasture cropping in black grass patches. Or try and grow a spring cereal around a perennial warm season grass?

If your getting ponding there's definite denitrification which is not a facet no till wants to showcase....
I the the water-logging of clays is the big concern over-winter and I think this is where no-till can start to perform relatively worse than conventional crops if the water does not get away quickly. This is why I think mole-draining may still have a role to play, in particularly because you do not need to have water-logged conditions for very long (like hours) before a lot of loss can occur. OK, earthworm channels can go 1m deep, but our clay goes down well below this, so whilst the water will drain quickly down through the channels, it has no-where to go at the bottom.
 

martian

DD Moderator
Location
N Herts
We are all prone to a behavioural bias called defensive decision-making, which results in our receiving sympathy if we fail when trying to achieve something the conventional way, when we would have been blamed if we'd failed trying a new technique. This bias is why so many big firms are dinosaurs, as the middle management layer filters out interesting ideas and stops them being implemented.

As (on the whole) self-employed farmers we can take whatever risks we want and brave the scorn, or bask in the praise, of the forum. I'll happily admit I've nailed my no-till colours to the mast and I've made a lot of mistakes, both before and since then. Pleasingly most of our crops look pretty good now. We've identified some land that definitely needs moling, which we are happy to 750a straight on top of, but otherwise there is nowhere that 'needs' tillage. Some land might well take short term benefits from a scratch or two, but it ain't getting it.
 
We are all prone to a behavioural bias called defensive decision-making, which results in our receiving sympathy if we fail when trying to achieve something the conventional way, when we would have been blamed if we'd failed trying a new technique. This bias is why so many big firms are dinosaurs, as the middle management layer filters out interesting ideas and stops them being implemented.

As (on the whole) self-employed farmers we can take whatever risks we want and brave the scorn, or bask in the praise, of the forum. I'll happily admit I've nailed my no-till colours to the mast and I've made a lot of mistakes, both before and since then. Pleasingly most of our crops look pretty good now. We've identified some land that definitely needs moling, which we are happy to 750a straight on top of, but otherwise there is nowhere that 'needs' tillage. Some land might well take short term benefits from a scratch or two, but it ain't getting it.
Any chance of some updated pictures?!
 
Good post

To be honest I think you're right.
I have made no till work well this year, but know I can't next year with grass seed return without tillage. The only way I could carry through into year 4/5 is 100% spring crop! and focus on manure spreading in the autumn. It seems the logical thing to do, and would be more profitable gross margin wise I'm sure.
If I'd used Atlantis and stacked pre ems last autumn across the board I could prob go again with a no till winter cereal regime.

We will see....perhaps a wet autumn will force ones hand....

I know Richard Harding talked at BASE about how winter cereals may be a poor use of our soil /nutrient resources I think he was making a great point
In what way are the winter crops a poor use of resources? I would have thought spring are worse since they capture less sunlight?
 

shakerator

Member
Location
LINCS
In what way are the winter crops a poor use of resources? I would have thought spring are worse since they capture less sunlight?
During the winter base meeting, you looked outside to see extremely wet fields of cereals with 2-3 tillers on them. A lot of energy and money is spent on herbicide to stop anything else growing. I don't think one can expect winter cereal roots to catch leaching nutrients and recycle them as well as a cover with surface residue. I think the comparison was to a cover crop established early and then terminated at spring establishment. If your leaving ploughed ground to weather over winter then I think you are correct. Spring crops can be completely different kettle of fish with different management (although there is a danger my judgement on that is clouded following 2 very kind springs)
 
During the winter base meeting, you looked outside to see extremely wet fields of cereals with 2-3 tillers on them. A lot of energy and money is spent on herbicide to stop anything else growing. I don't think one can expect winter cereal roots to catch leaching nutrients and recycle them as well as a cover with surface residue. I think the comparison was to a cover crop established early and then terminated at spring establishment. If your leaving ploughed ground to weather over winter then I think you are correct. Spring crops can be completely different kettle of fish with different management (although there is a danger my judgement on that is clouded following 2 very kind springs)
So maybe a cover crop which is grazed off before drilling a spring crop is the ultimate in efficiency?
 

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Machinery destroyed in latest of 4 farm arson attacks

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Written by Agriland Team

Machinery was destroyed – along with a shed and a number of bales – in an overnight farm fire in Co. Down over the weekend – which is the latest in a series of shed fires believed to be started deliberately.

In a statement on social media, local members of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) confirmed the news of the incident, which took place near Banbridge...
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