Winter wheat drilling

[Clive]

Do what YOU think is the way to go.
Ok for agronomists to say “hold your nerve to drill later”, but their cash flow is not being effected by the worst harvest many have experienced in their farming career.
Agronomists are playing with clients money not their own.

unless your holding out for spring I don’t think later drilled winter crops does as much for grass weed as is suggested

if blackgrass is a big issue and you want rid then you should not be growing winter crops at all imo

anyone growing best part of 10t/ha or more that claims they have a black grass problem doesn’t know what a problem really is !

 

[fudge]

I feel like I'm definitely going to be accused of farming for last year, but honestly this plan was hatched before last autumn even happened when we designed the Mid Tier scheme. Doesn't mean it will work though. I am prepared to end up with dirty crops which will be somewhat mitigated by a fallow that follows and will then inevitably have to change the strategy (probably going to light discing and normal time for drilling around here).

Ok you have provoked a response. You have gone for fallow to clear up bg now you are talking about drilling on the tenth of September. Next you will be on here asking why flufenacet no longer works. Surely you would be better lining up a contractor to help you get round in October. Yeah you are farming for last year. Which brings me to the major problem with fallow it gives farmers too much time to think about last season!

 

[Simon Chiles]

i‘m thinking of harvesting 2020 crops first

That’s almost word for word exactly the same as I said to him on the phone.

 

[Feldspar]

Ok you have provoked a response. You have gone for fallow to clear up bg now you are talking about drilling on the tenth of September. Next you will be on here asking why flufenacet no longer works. Surely you would be better lining up a contractor to help you get round in October. Yeah you are farming for last year. Which brings me to the major problem with fallow it gives farmers too much time to think about last season!

A few things. I have not gone for fallow primarily to clear up black-grass. I chose it because it gives one of the best risk adjusted returns of any crop I grow. Black-grass control is a useful feature which lowers the overall risk. Given I was happy with the risk level we had before, this allows some flexibility where there wasn't before.

On flufenacet, we are still growing rape, and we haven't put a pre-em on our spring crops for the last two years. We also don't use flufenacet by itself, and don't use ridiculous amounts at any one time. The fallows with glyphosate will obviously mitigate some of the selection pressure to date. So I don't think I'm being any more irresponsible than a lot of other farming systems I see. If anything it's our glyphosate use that is my biggest concern.

We have not been twiddling our thumbs with the introduction of fallow. We acquired quite a bit more land last year so we've had plenty of cropped area to keep us busy.

The contractor point is a good one and one I had considered. The situation we have though is delicate, in that it won't take much rain to make some of the land very tricky to do. I have been there and done that in exactly this situation before.

On farming for last year, as I said, this strategy was hatched before last autumn. Also, as I also said, we drilled some fields last year without glyphosate pre-drilling. We can see in the fallows what the black-grass pressure was (almost too low to spray off in May in a number of cases). And we are being quite careful about soil disturbance to minimise new seed coming to the surface.

 

[Feldspar]

That’s almost word for word exactly the same as I said to him on the phone.

Have you not heard of relay cropping?!

 

[Badshot]

Fields following bare fallow will be the first fields to flood this winter.

 

[CPF]

So... who's started wheat drilling? Or when are you thinking of starting?

Son-in-law said his uncle started drilling wheat on Sunday.

 

[David.]

Does fallow in mid tier come anywhere close profit wise to a mediocre break crop?

 

[teslacoils]

Does fallow in mid tier come anywhere close profit wise to a mediocre break crop?

It's £430/ha for doing nothing. Plus sub at the moment. It's not as good as legume fallow. But finding a mediocre break crop is the problem for heavy soils.

 

[fudge]

A few things. I have not gone for fallow primarily to clear up black-grass. I chose it because it gives one of the best risk adjusted returns of any crop I grow. Black-grass control is a useful feature which lowers the overall risk. Given I was happy with the risk level we had before, this allows some flexibility where there wasn't before.

On flufenacet, we are still growing rape, and we haven't put a pre-em on our spring crops for the last two years. We also don't use flufenacet by itself, and don't use ridiculous amounts at any one time. The fallows with glyphosate will obviously mitigate some of the selection pressure to date. So I don't think I'm being any more irresponsible than a lot of other farming systems I see. If anything it's our glyphosate use that is my biggest concern.

We have not been twiddling our thumbs with the introduction of fallow. We acquired quite a bit more land last year so we've had plenty of cropped area to keep us busy.

The contractor point is a good one and one I had considered. The situation we have though is delicate, in that it won't take much rain to make some of the land very tricky to do. I have been there and done that in exactly this situation before.

On farming for last year, as I said, this strategy was hatched before last autumn. Also, as I also said, we drilled some fields last year without glyphosate pre-drilling. We can see in the fallows what the black-grass pressure was (almost too low to spray off in May in a number of cases). And we are being quite careful about soil disturbance to minimise new seed coming to the surface.

From what you say it seems blackgrass isn’t too much of a problem so mid September drilling should be fine! I don’t really share your confidence that resistance won’t become a problem with flufenacet, imo it needs all the help it can get, therefore I won’t be drilling before October here.

 

[Hindsight]

Does fallow in mid tier come anywhere close profit wise to a mediocre break crop?

Calculate yourself. Payment is £436 hectare for bare fallow. Have an application of glyphosate to take off as the variable cost, so I suppose leaves a gross margin of say £400 hectare. How does that compare with a mediocre break crop. What is a mediocre crop? Beans/peas, say sub 3 t/ha? Rape, say sub 2.6 t/ha, Linseed sub 1.8 t/ha.

Thoughts?

AB6: Enhanced overwinter stubble

Find out about eligibility and requirements for the enhanced overwinter stubble option.

www.gov.uk

 

[farmerm]

i‘m thinking of harvesting 2020 crops first

I am not sure mind deserve the accolade of being labeled as crops.... Might start harvest here this afternoon.. Its nearly mid September ffs

 

[Hindsight]

From what you say it seems blackgrass isn’t too much of a problem so mid September drilling should be fine! I don’t really share your confidence that resistance won’t become a problem with flufenacet, imo it needs all the help it can get, therefore I won’t be drilling before October here.

Resistance will creep in. There is already reduced performance on the 'Colsterworth' strain of blackgrass - widely reported in the literature. So only a matter of time. Have to hope it is a gradual slide and not a steep decline. Hey ho.

 

[David.]

Calculate yourself. Payment is £436 hectare for bare fallow. Have an application of glyphosate to take off as the variable cost, so I suppose leaves a gross margin of say £400 hectare. How does that compare with a mediocre break crop. What is a mediocre crop? Beans/peas, say sub 3 t/ha? Rape, say sub 2.6 t/ha, Linseed sub 1.8 t/ha.

Thoughts?

AB6: Enhanced overwinter stubble

Find out about eligibility and requirements for the enhanced overwinter stubble option.

www.gov.uk

It is better than rape has done this last 3 years.

 

[Badshot]

From what you say it seems blackgrass isn’t too much of a problem so mid September drilling should be fine! I don’t really share your confidence that resistance won’t become a problem with flufenacet, imo it needs all the help it can get, therefore I won’t be drilling before October here.

There is already resistance to flufenacet.
It's only matter of when it breaks down, not if.

 

[Feldspar]

Calculate yourself. Payment is £436 hectare for bare fallow. Have an application of glyphosate to take off as the variable cost, so I suppose leaves a gross margin of say £400 hectare. How does that compare with a mediocre break crop. What is a mediocre crop? Beans/peas, say sub 3 t/ha? Rape, say sub 2.6 t/ha, Linseed sub 1.8 t/ha.

Thoughts?

AB6: Enhanced overwinter stubble

Find out about eligibility and requirements for the enhanced overwinter stubble option.

www.gov.uk

I prefer to look at overall margin. We attribute £100/ha of fixed costs to our AB6. Wheat is more like £500/ha. Overall a margin of £320/ha is pretty competitive this year.

 

[ajd132]

A few things. I have not gone for fallow primarily to clear up black-grass. I chose it because it gives one of the best risk adjusted returns of any crop I grow. Black-grass control is a useful feature which lowers the overall risk. Given I was happy with the risk level we had before, this allows some flexibility where there wasn't before.

On flufenacet, we are still growing rape, and we haven't put a pre-em on our spring crops for the last two years. We also don't use flufenacet by itself, and don't use ridiculous amounts at any one time. The fallows with glyphosate will obviously mitigate some of the selection pressure to date. So I don't think I'm being any more irresponsible than a lot of other farming systems I see. If anything it's our glyphosate use that is my biggest concern.

We have not been twiddling our thumbs with the introduction of fallow. We acquired quite a bit more land last year so we've had plenty of cropped area to keep us busy.

The contractor point is a good one and one I had considered. The situation we have though is delicate, in that it won't take much rain to make some of the land very tricky to do. I have been there and done that in exactly this situation before.

On farming for last year, as I said, this strategy was hatched before last autumn. Also, as I also said, we drilled some fields last year without glyphosate pre-drilling. We can see in the fallows what the black-grass pressure was (almost too low to spray off in May in a number of cases). And we are being quite careful about soil disturbance to minimise new seed coming to the surface.

We are the same in terms of flufenacet and the other pre ems. Everything we want to drill early hasn’t seen it for 2-3 years. We don’t use any on spring crops either. Very different ball game to 5/6 years ago growing loads of wheat trying to control BG with chemicals

 

[jd2013]

I am not sure mind deserve the accolade of being labeled as crops.... Might start harvest here this afternoon.. Its nearly mid September ffs

 

[Northern territory]

It's £430/ha for doing nothing. Plus sub at the moment. It's not as good as legume fallow. But finding a mediocre break crop is the problem for heavy soils.

How long do you have to wait for payment?

 

[B'o'B]

How long do you have to wait for payment?

No body really knows, but it seems to be getting better and generally you know you will get it at some point.
For now it seems a better option to me than busting your gut growing a crop, buying all the inputs, wearing out machinery and yourself out, hoping you may get a little bit more back, but in reality are more likely to get much less back.