Wolves

[som farmer]

and those who preach re-wilding, will assure you, they will NOT attack domesticated livestock, l have no idea what planet these people live on, it's very definitely not this one.
The biggest problem any wild animal has, is feeding itself, and it's young, the easier the food supply, the greater the survival rate, and a rapid expansion, follows. Most, if not all, wildlife parks, have contraceptive measures in place, for many of their animals, esp carnivores. Why ? easy to answer, right conditions, plenty of food, means population explosion, even true with humans.
Do we stand a chance of converting those zealots, to reality ? Not a chance, they know it, but choose to ignore it, as it doesn't fit their dream, and what's a few dead animals, in their dream of reverting the country back to primeval natural forest, l even suspect some of them have very deep rooted plans on removing people from areas, to let nature really take over again.

 

[JohnGalway]

What do people expect to happen?

It's not just livestock, pets are also victims of wold attacks.
During some of my trips to Germany I've asked various questions about wolves, and it seems that in winter when livestock are housed and wolves come closer to towns a lot of domestic pets get mauled.

One up side is that wolves and badgers don't generally coexist particularly well together.
But I think I'd have badgers over wolves.

Unfortunately people are generally too involved in their own problems to do any research, they get spun a fairy tale like farthingwood friends on TV or in print. If some pee'd farmer comes on telly or the paper moaning stock getting killed, well, our image & message delivery isn't the best I think

As to livestock guardian dogs, looked into them before. I farm in a tourist area, we have absolutely no right to roam which deters 0% of them. Recently, a girl was bitten by a sheepdog, the court awarded her €175,000. Fun times with guardian dogs roaming the country sides. Also, as a 40+ year veteran, people can't read signs.

 

[CopperBeech]

I’d have a crack just big foxes ain’t they

 

[Turnip]

Unfortunately people are generally too involved in their own problems to do any research, they get spun a fairy tale like farthingwood friends on TV or in print. If some pee'd farmer comes on telly or the paper moaning stock getting killed, well, our image & message delivery isn't the best I think

As to livestock guardian dogs, looked into them before. I farm in a tourist area, we have absolutely no right to roam which deters 0% of them. Recently, a girl was bitten by a sheepdog, the court awarded her €175,000. Fun times with guardian dogs roaming the country sides. Also, as a 40+ year veteran, people can't read signs.

assuming this is the case, with the event in 2014:

Girl ‘savaged’ by sheepdog on friend’s farm settles case for €175,000

Court hears teenager happy to wear face mask during pandemic as it covers up scars

www.irishtimes.com

The case was settled (court didn't award the amount) and declared that liability was not an issue in the case.

But you raise a good point as to the legal situation, and that is something highlighted by a lot of organizations involved with livestock guardian dogs. Segments on countryfile would help educate the public at large but protections need to be made in law.

 

[JohnGalway]

assuming this is the case, with the event in 2014:

Girl ‘savaged’ by sheepdog on friend’s farm settles case for €175,000

Court hears teenager happy to wear face mask during pandemic as it covers up scars

www.irishtimes.com

The case was settled (court didn't award the amount) and declared that liability was not an issue in the case.

But you raise a good point as to the legal situation, and that is something highlighted by a lot of organizations involved with livestock guardian dogs. Segments on countryfile would help educate the public at large but protections need to be made in law.

It still wouldn't avoid confrontations with the many "entitled" people that are roaming around today. A silly example of which, I live in a tourist village. In tourist season we place two plant pots on the road directly outside of the house so we can "save" our parking spot. I put them out one day, drove a couple hundred meters to turn, and on passing find a tourist trying to park between the pots

We can throw arguments about any which way, but these apex predator reintroduction ideas only cause hassle to farmers. If it's not stock injury or death or waiting for one or the other to happen, it's confrontations with the public, eNGO lobby, or politicians and all scenarios cause unwanted grief to some degree. It's my belief that we have the tools available to us today to make re/wilding/apex reintroduction redundant. The biggest problem for the farmer is being a Luddite of sorts in two specific key areas, management education outside of conventional/chem ag & media. That means through our own fault we're well behind the curve.

 

[Turnip]

The biggest problem for the farmer is being a Luddite of sorts in two specific key areas, management education outside of conventional/chem ag & media. That means through our own fault we're well behind the curve.

completely agree with this. As a Catholic I am glad of the Catholic Voices (CV) org, it was created to improve the representation of the Church in the Media. There is also an educational aspect to train Catholics on how to communicate/debate. From what I can see farming could really benefit from an org like that. But farmers need to be willing to embrace it, some do but too many don't and bring down the good work.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

completely agree with this. As a Catholic I am glad of the Catholic Voices (CV) org, it was created to improve the representation of the Church in the Media. There is also an educational aspect to train Catholics on how to communicate/debate. From what I can see farming could really benefit from an org like that. But farmers need to be willing to embrace it, some do but too many don't and bring down the good work.

couple of times I have tried to contact Jeremy Vine when there have been discussions that could be related to Badgers and TB, however on both occasions I was not contacted back to discuss

 

[primmiemoo]

couple of times I have tried to contact Jeremy Vine when there have been discussions that could be related to Badgers and TB, however on both occasions I was not contacted back to discuss

With Jeremy Vine and his ilk, in order to register on his radar, you need first to have written a boke a had it published. You then need to have presented it at readings at boke festivals that he and his ilk attend ~ ideally in some oh-so-pretty former fishing village where his chums Tris and Casta have a second home, or other oh-so-pretty place that's no longer alive.

Vine and his ilk don't like real things.

 

[JohnGalway]

"Gegen den Wolf sagt keiner was – aus Angst"

In Köln hat ein Wolf für Wirbel gesorgt, der mitten durch das Stadtgebiet gel...

www.t-online.de

 

[Paddington]

Having a "conversation" with an ardent re-wilder I asked what would happen in the case of livestock being attacked ? This, apparently was of little concern, there were too many sheep in the country and routinely "many thousands were killed each year by dogs(??), but you didn't hear any outcry. I pointed out that dogs could be shot, it was every farmers duty to protect their animals and supposedly wolves would be given protected status ? No, the sheep would have to be removed from the land and the land planted with trees, saving the planet, we didn't have to eat meat and the farmers paid to leave the land, they were mainly all old and not receptive to new ideas.etc etc
If this person had lived in a city all their life and only read the Guardian and watched BBC, then you may say this was down to ignorance, the really sad thing is that they were educated and had worked for defra. There may be many more people like this in govt. positions of power.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Having a "conversation" with an ardent re-wilder I asked what would happen in the case of livestock being attacked ? This, apparently was of little concern, there were too many sheep in the country and routinely "many thousands were killed each year by dogs(??), but you didn't hear any outcry. I pointed out that dogs could be shot, it was every farmers duty to protect their animals and supposedly wolves would be given protected status ? No, the sheep would have to be removed from the land and the land planted with trees, saving the planet, we didn't have to eat meat and the farmers paid to leave the land, they were mainly all old and not receptive to new ideas.etc etc
If this person had lived in a city all their life and only read the Guardian and watched BBC, then you may say this was down to ignorance, the really sad thing is that they were educated and had worked for defra. There may be many more people like this in govt. positions of power.

Then we really do need to register farmers as a recognised minority so that such ignorant predjudiced comments can be legally challenged.....

 

[Longlowdog]

No-one without a vested interest in the land destined for their plans should have the ability to inflict loss on the landowner. The concept that 'the land is ours' has been promoted by the media without anyone defending the person who through sacrifice and hard work comes into possession of land. It belongs to the landowner not the government, not the public.
Introducing beavers into rivers that you do not have riparian ownership of, eagles into hills you don't own, lynx into woodland, wolves into moors is not acceptable if you are not in a position to share the associated losses as well as the plaudits.
If being a marrow muncher can be recognised as a protected characteristic then surely being a farmer can be awarded the same protection from society's misdirected comments and actions.

 

[neilo]

couple of times I have tried to contact Jeremy Vine when there have been discussions that could be related to Badgers and TB, however on both occasions I was not contacted back to discuss

I’ve often wondered if you could get on by telling the researcher some woke reason in support of Whine’s arguement, then change it and tell the truth if/when you actually got on?

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I’ve often wondered if you could get on by telling the researcher some woke reason in support of Whine’s arguement, then change it and tell the truth if/when you actually got on?

I remember listening to Chris Evans on the morning show, interviewing a "pearly king" who now lived in Essex (Dagenham or somewhere like that), who said he had left the East End because of all the coloured immigrants who now lived in London, it was quite funny to hear, as Chris Evans could not get him off the radio quick enough! But by that stage he had already said it all.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Then we really do need to register farmers as a recognised minority so that such ignorant predjudiced comments can be legally challenged.....

I heard Robin Page speak at the game fair, I thought he was a bit barking mad, but, he did say the same and on that count I really agree with him, we are Britain's indigenous forgotten minority.

 

[Treecreeper]

I’d have a crack just big foxes ain’t they View attachment 973021

I've seen some in Canada, your pair would be classed as a light lunch.

 

[Uggman]

I’d have a crack just big foxes ain’t they View attachment 973021

Are they yours? cool but I think you might need a old wolf or deer hound!

 

[CopperBeech]

Are they yours? cool but I think you might need a old wolf or deer hound!

They are indeed. I was being a bit tongue in cheek, but the black and white dog would fancy his chances I think neither are small dogs, both would be similar height and not far off the weight of some Eurasian wolves ....

They would eat a wolf / deer hound for breakfast

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Having a "conversation" with an ardent re-wilder I asked what would happen in the case of livestock being attacked ? This, apparently was of little concern, there were too many sheep in the country and routinely "many thousands were killed each year by dogs(??), but you didn't hear any outcry. I pointed out that dogs could be shot, it was every farmers duty to protect their animals and supposedly wolves would be given protected status ? No, the sheep would have to be removed from the land and the land planted with trees, saving the planet, we didn't have to eat meat and the farmers paid to leave the land, they were mainly all old and not receptive to new ideas.etc etc
If this person had lived in a city all their life and only read the Guardian and watched BBC, then you may say this was down to ignorance, the really sad thing is that they were educated and had worked for defra. There may be many more people like this in govt. positions of power.

Sounds like a prime candidate for holding down the the lagoon…

 

[flowerpot]

There are wolves - and wolves. I don't know the names, but the ordinary pack wolves are not that big, but a Timber Wolf looked as big as a shetland pony, when I saw one in a Canadian wildlife park.

I wouldn't object to the re-introduction of solitary species like lynx, in a suitable far flung place, but definitely not a pack animal like a wolf.