World market are we kidding ourselves???

it seems interesting that we talk of removing subs in the UK while i read this morning about the gigantic levels of subsidy in Japan a country the same size as germany yet gets the same amount of subsidy as the whole of the EU put together??? do people not investigate countries other than NZ on the world market???????????

nobodies ever mentioned this on here before or the fact Japan is only 5th in the OECD subsidy league, in terms of Producer Support Estimate (PSE) switzerland and Norway (62 %), iceland (56 %) and South Korea (49 %) offer their farmers much more in this respect!!!!!!

here in Scotland we are already one of the lowest subsidised countries in the world competing in a subsidy driven world market with inflated costs and artificially low prices yet we also bare one of the highest labour costs with minimum wage approaching £10/hr!!!

Why are we constantly looking at NZ a country with the same latitude as NZ, a country that grows grass 10 months of the year, a country that has poor welfare standards, a country with the same land mass as us yet 1/10th of the people to feed, a country with an extremely poor exchange rate meaning they can export everything?? lets take a look at what others are doing before we ruin the future of our industry
 

Err0l

Member
Location
Cheshire
it seems interesting that we talk of removing subs in the UK while i read this morning about the gigantic levels of subsidy in Japan a country the same size as germany yet gets the same amount of subsidy as the whole of the EU put together??? do people not investigate countries other than NZ on the world market???????????

nobodies ever mentioned this on here before or the fact Japan is only 5th in the OECD subsidy league, in terms of Producer Support Estimate (PSE) switzerland and Norway (62 %), iceland (56 %) and South Korea (49 %) offer their farmers much more in this respect!!!!!!

here in Scotland we are already one of the lowest subsidised countries in the world competing in a subsidy driven world market with inflated costs and artificially low prices yet we also bare one of the highest labour costs with minimum wage approaching £10/hr!!!

Why are we constantly looking at NZ a country with the same latitude as NZ, a country that grows grass 10 months of the year, a country that has poor welfare standards, a country with the same land mass as us yet 1/10th of the people to feed, a country with an extremely poor exchange rate meaning they can export everything?? lets take a look at what others are doing before we ruin the future of our industry
You have very little to worry about with your 1000 acres. Anyway how's that dairy coming along? I don't want to scare you but subsidy on a dairy farm is usually below 5% of turnover so it may not be for you after all.
 
People look New Zealand because they are big players on the world market

Japanese farmers may well receive big subsidies but they they are also only tiny exporters on to world markets. They import $60bn worth of food and export only $3bn and that's mostly green tea.
It shows japan understands the importance of its own producers though, with nz their exchange rate is very favourable for export, if the pound were ever to be as weak as the NZ dollar the uk would be in a very bad way
 

tepapa

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Wales
Because 'when' (you can debate that) subsidies go, who are you going to look to and learn from to help keep your business afloat? Japan with a high sub level or NZ who receive no sub and sell on the world market.
You can almost guarantee, the government couldn't care less how Japan funds its ag industry.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Aren't you trying to feed the world, @Bossfarmer?

Simple fact of the matter is: much of the world outside of Europe cannot afford your definition of "cheap".
Whether that is a £90 pound lamb, or a £1300 bullock..

So to answer the question, yes, you're kidding yourself.

If you want to be players in the world market, cut those prices in half - most of the world can afford to undercut you.

The problem with your dear subsidy is, it is a substitute for an action plan, as many other threads at present are discussing.
As also discussed, it seems to be a substitute for a healthy return on capital employed.
 
It shows japan understands the importance of its own producers though, with nz their exchange rate is very favourable for export, if the pound were ever to be as weak as the NZ dollar the uk would be in a very bad way

All it shows is Japan cares about its food security. It's a very mountainous country and the few flat bits have now mostly been built on. If they didn't subsidise their farmers then they would be very reliant on imports for almost all their food.
 
Aren't you trying to feed the world, @Bossfarmer?

Simple fact of the matter is: much of the world outside of Europe cannot afford your definition of "cheap".
Whether that is a £90 pound lamb, or a £1300 bullock..

So to answer the question, yes, you're kidding yourself.

If you want to be players in the world market, cut those prices in half - most of the world can afford to undercut you.

The problem with your dear subsidy is, it is a substitute for an action plan, as many other threads at present are discussing.
As also discussed, it seems to be a substitute for a healthy return on capital employed.
Everyone knows real world market prices are massive outdoor feedlot systems of thousands of cattle and black sea wheat producers some farming 100,000 acres
 

Sonoftheheir

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
West Suffolk
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Surely we have nothing to fear from the countries above us who receive the most? What can they import to us?
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
...Japan a country the same size as germany yet gets the same amount of subsidy as the whole of the EU put together...

nobodies ever mentioned this on here before or the fact Japan is only 5th in the OECD subsidy league, in terms of Producer Support Estimate (PSE) switzerland and Norway (62 %), iceland (56 %) and South Korea (49 %) offer their farmers much more in this respect!

First let's get the facts right, Japan is about 5% bigger than Germany by area, but has more than 50% more people than Germany; there are >2.3m farms in Japan, less than a third that of number in Germany.

Japan subsidises its farmers for, you guessed it, political reasons. Despite being overwhelmingly urban in its population, Japan is still made up of >80% forested mountains and rural land use. There is still a very great national attachment to the soil, and they are also paranoid about being blockaded by China.

Norway and Switzerland subsidise for the same emotional reason, plus they can afford to. Iceland because it has to. South Korea for the same reasons as Japan.

None of these countries pose a threat to UK farming, in fact it is not unlikely that Japan and South Korea - and China too - will provide good markets for Welsh Lamb post-Brexit. :)
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Everyone knows real world market prices are massive outdoor feedlot systems of thousands of cattle and black sea wheat producers some farming 100,000 acres
Absolutely.
We had a girl come over from her family farm in Texas, 5000 cows, 12000 acres, 40 Mexicans, 12 Dutch foremen..
3 36 36 euro style parlours running 23 hours a day, and Dad spent the day studying world milk prices and working out how much to feed the cows and what.

Pretty scary when you think that is just a "family farm"

In saying that, she was so impressed by the grass to milk idea, cows eating food directly off the paddock, her family flew out to see it.
(I even taught Dad how to put cups on a cow, something he'd never done :ROFLMAO:)

For us, the sweet spot is around USD2400T of powder, when it goes up, folks like that simply turn up the knobs and money comes out.

But "artificially low" beef prices?
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
A finished steer I can sell for a good profit at around £700.
That's realistically what you're looking at.

I'd still love to know more about my poor welfare standards though?

Is it my lambs I ringed at a day old, did I need a vet to come out to watch?
(n)
Is it the fact I'm allowed to bury a dead animal in a hole on my property, that must be why it's all only half price :banghead:

I think it's because my government doesn't care if I sink or swim.
Same as yours.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
very interesting, the cost of production in different countries... with subs and without subs... Kiwi Pete thank you, a very interesting read indeed...
They are of course indirectly subsidised (by the feed being subsidised) but it was really an incredible revelation!
One of the big ones, that they had emigrated from The Netherlands with not a huge amount of money, and no plan B..
That's fairly typical of the Dutch though..

'Boer maak 'n plan', in a nutshell.

The other revelation was that it was possible to "make it" and still not know how to cup a cow!
It showed me first hand I needed to learn a lot more about the world at large, and not focus too much on inside the farm gate, if I wanted to survive.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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