Wots this nonsense now on trailers?

Bongodog

Member
With the empty trailer yes. But it was loaded not far from the incident site at Alconbury.

But whatever, the trailer was still unfit for use due to a 5 minute adjustment not being done.
Apologies for my assumptions, local media covered both the inquest and court case, even printed maps showing the route from Eltisley to Alconbury, the only mention of a 3rd location was that the trailers were stored overwinter at Godmanchester (this was made out to be a long term arrangement which it wasn't as they had only recently bought Debden Top) It also explains why nothing was made of an overweight trailer leaving a yard with a weighbridge, as it only left empty.

Just shows that the media can sit in a courtroom all through a case and still miss significant parts of the case.

On to the subject of the Tilly pass, whilst well meaning what does it achieve ? yearly inspection of a trailer that doesn't include a brake efficiency test that can then lull users into a false sense of security many months after the inspection.

I recall the farm owners couldn't even be bothered to turn up to court, here was a farming company that ran a fleet of grain lorries but chose to look for the cheapest option to transport their grain between sites resulting in a young lad losing his whole adult life.
 

bactosoil

Member
Thats the NFU Mutual though.


3 'trailer' schemes at the moment.

Tilly which is just a service and includes no brake measurement. Trailers can still be illegal and unsafe on the roads due to manufacturers fitting inadequate brakes.

Merit, which carry out roller brake testing but no servicing. Trailers can be legal at the time but still need a service.

BAGMA, with fully trained inspectors who can carry out a full safety inspection, service AND back it up with a proper brake test. All endorsed and run by the leading industry body (The Ag Engineers Association).

I'd be interested to see if other insurance companies take a more sensible approach.... @Nigel Wellings are Acres going to support a scheme?
While all farm trailers should be roadworthy , its going to be the responsibility of farmers and contractors to be able to prove their trailers are safe that will be an issue ,and relates to the three schemes mentioned .Should god forbid an accident happens HSE will expect to see proof of inspection and will bring up PUWER ,even if its not a legal requirement for mandatory trailer testing .

I have heard but dont know which court, that a test case is going through for loss of life involving a tractor and trailer ,the anticipation by the prosecution is a custodial sentence for those involved and to be the benchmark for tractor and trailer accidents in the future .

Even if trailer testing isnt mandatory it kind of becoming so without it being law and its a brave farmer/contractor not having paperwork and testing in place.

Throw into the mix artic trailers being potentially outlawed by guidance notes being created and given to vosa/police/hse its going to be yet another thing for farmers to deal with along with laws through the backdoor, without anyone challenging and verifying them, is yet another burden for farming
It would be interesting where Insurance companies stand on this issue
 

roscoe erf

Member
Livestock Farmer
While all farm trailers should be roadworthy , its going to be the responsibility of farmers and contractors to be able to prove their trailers are safe that will be an issue ,and relates to the three schemes mentioned .Should god forbid an accident happens HSE will expect to see proof of inspection and will bring up PUWER ,even if its not a legal requirement for mandatory trailer testing .

I have heard but dont know which court, that a test case is going through for loss of life involving a tractor and trailer ,the anticipation by the prosecution is a custodial sentence for those involved and to be the benchmark for tractor and trailer accidents in the future .

Even if trailer testing isnt mandatory it kind of becoming so without it being law and its a brave farmer/contractor not having paperwork and testing in place.

Throw into the mix artic trailers being potentially outlawed by guidance notes being created and given to vosa/police/hse its going to be yet another thing for farmers to deal with along with laws through the backdoor, without anyone challenging and verifying them, is yet another burden for farming
It would be interesting where Insurance companies stand on this issue
evidence not just your hearsay show me the evidence of what you say I for one am getting sick of all this rumour and hearsay
 

jg123

Member
Mixed Farmer
In reference to the original post my richard western (2012) has a chassis prop in the center of the chassis, you have to lean right into the middle of the chassis to lift it and it sits under the floor not a cross member. Seems a terrible design on a otherwise good trailer. Did they change the regulations since that the prob has to be reachable without leaning under the body? An external chassis to body main beam seems far better idea and wouldnt matter if only on one side with an empty trailer
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
A quick google shows that NFU work with BAGMA. A quick glance shows that Clive’s screenshot doesn’t mention the NFU, only an insurance company who share its name.


dont kid yourself there is no connection

the mutual pay the NFU over 6 million a year to say the right things !
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
dont kid yourself there is no connection

the mutual pay the NFU over 6 million a year to say the right things !
I didn’t say there was no connection, just pointed out it wasn’t the same organisation.

How much do you pay Red Tractor to “say the right thing” v/v your product being good enough for your customers? I wouldn’t dare suggest you endorse everything that RT do.
 

Andrew

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Location
Huntingdon, UK
evidence not just your hearsay show me the evidence of what you say I for one am getting sick of all this rumour and hearsay

There is no evidence at the moment.
BUT if you killed someone and have no maintenance records it would be very hard for you to prove ‘Oh I checked the brakes on X date’.

If you have even a farm diary that it’s written in, and it’s obvious this is routine (ie 5yrs worth of diaries all filled in, not just the one) then it becomes easier for a lawyer to defend you.
Even a date stamp picture on your phone makes this easier.
 

cosmagedon

Member
Location
North Wales
Actually that depends on the tractor.
My cnh tractors trailer brakes don't grab until you really push on the tractor pedal. Despite my protestations that they're in need of adjustment, I'm assured there's no adjustment for aggressiveness.
My older ones make the trailer grab, but not the 13 plate ones, they require a lot more leg input to get the trailer brakes going.

It's possible to buy a different brake valve for a CNH so the hydraulic brakes come on sooner. It was about £170 when I fitted it.
 

roscoe erf

Member
Livestock Farmer
There is no evidence at the moment.
BUT if you killed someone and have no maintenance records it would be very hard for you to prove ‘Oh I checked the brakes on X date’.

If you have even a farm diary that it’s written in, and it’s obvious this is routine (ie 5yrs worth of diaries all filled in, not just the one) then it becomes easier for a lawyer to defend you.
Even a date stamp picture on your phone makes this easier.
that's not what i'm asking about its all the other hearsay trailers being banned etc
 
Come on Folks ...... Let's turn the Heat down a bit ....... Here's my experience which (hopefully) may provide a bit of re-assurance:-

1) Nothing is going to be banned unless legislation / statutory requirements are changed

2) There's an awful lot of faff / effort / COST involved in attempting to change any law. There has to be a clear case that something is wrong at present and clear justification (often both practical, moral & financial) that it's worth going to the trouble of making the change.

3) Even if these 'boxes' can be 'ticked', there then usually has to be a Public Consultation of relevant Stakeholders / Interested Parties to ensure the proposed Change to Legislation isn't going to have unforeseen consequences & achieve the desired outcome.

4) Finally, after all this it might actually happen ..... But only if the relevant government departments support it .... and have the time & manpower to implement it. ...... And at the moment there's not a lot of either spare in Whitehall.

So in reality, unless a really serious incident occurs, involving multiple casualties, which creates Public Outrage at us apparently 'lightly regulated' agricultural road users, nothing much is going to change ....... BUT that doesn't mean that the existing regulations (as out-dated & inappropriate as they may be) can't or won't be enforced with vigour ... But then that's ultimately dependent upon the knowledge, desire and resources available amongst the 'Enforcement Fraternity'. You answer those last few questions yourselves.

Ultimately, Guidance is just that ... 'guidance' .... BUT Law is Law.
 

roscoe erf

Member
Livestock Farmer
Come on Folks ...... Let's turn the Heat down a bit ....... Here's my experience which (hopefully) may provide a bit of re-assurance:-

1) Nothing is going to be banned unless legislation / statutory requirements are changed

2) There's an awful lot of faff / effort / COST involved in attempting to change any law. There has to be a clear case that something is wrong at present and clear justification (often both practical, moral & financial) that it's worth going to the trouble of making the change.

3) Even if these 'boxes' can be 'ticked', there then usually has to be a Public Consultation of relevant Stakeholders / Interested Parties to ensure the proposed Change to Legislation isn't going to have unforeseen consequences & achieve the desired outcome.

4) Finally, after all this it might actually happen ..... But only if the relevant government departments support it .... and have the time & manpower to implement it. ...... And at the moment there's not a lot of either spare in Whitehall.

So in reality, unless a really serious incident occurs, involving multiple casualties, which creates Public Outrage at us apparently 'lightly regulated' agricultural road users, nothing much is going to change ....... BUT that doesn't mean that the existing regulations (as out-dated & inappropriate as they may be) can't or won't be enforced with vigour ... But then that's ultimately dependent upon the knowledge, desire and resources available amongst the 'Enforcement Fraternity'. You answer those last few questions yourselves.

Ultimately, Guidance is just that ... 'guidance' .... BUT Law is Law.
at last some sense these posts that chose to try and scaremonger bully push you in a direction with complete misleading information and in some cases pure lies just gets my f**king goat
 
at last some sense these posts that chose to try and scaremonger bully push you in a direction with complete misleading information and in some cases pure lies just gets my f**king goat
I can appreciate where you're coming from, but the vast majority of us who work with/alongside Owners & Users are just trying to provide honest guidance which will withstand any form of scrutiny anyone may wish to throw at it.

The Bottom Line is that times have moved on and ag. equipment & farming practices have changed, but (On-Road) Legal limitations haven't kept pace. Legislation in other countries has changed, but many of these now require formal roadworthiness inspections of heavier / faster ag. vehicles.

So, Hands Up who:-
- drives a Tractor (not a Fastrac or Unimog) over 25 mph / 40 km/h?
- tows a Grain Trailer of over 13.5 - 14 tonnes capacity?

If you do either you are breaking UK Law .... No scaremongering or bullying ..... Just fact. ..... You most likely will never get stopped, BUT because you're doing it you may consider it wise to ensure everything else about the kit (e.g. Maintenance, Braking Performance, etc) is up-to-scratch / spot-on, just in case one day the undesirable or unthinkable happens.

No Bullying ..... It's your choice because ultimately, it's your risk / liability. 😉
 

snarling bee

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
I can appreciate where you're coming from, but the vast majority of us who work with/alongside Owners & Users are just trying to provide honest guidance which will withstand any form of scrutiny anyone may wish to throw at it.

The Bottom Line is that times have moved on and ag. equipment & farming practices have changed, but (On-Road) Legal limitations haven't kept pace. Legislation in other countries has changed, but many of these now require formal roadworthiness inspections of heavier / faster ag. vehicles.

So, Hands Up who:-
- drives a Tractor (not a Fastrac or Unimog) over 25 mph / 40 km/h?
- tows a Grain Trailer of over 13.5 - 14 tonnes capacity?

If you do either you are breaking UK Law .... No scaremongering or bullying ..... Just fact. ..... You most likely will never get stopped, BUT because you're doing it you may consider it wise to ensure everything else about the kit (e.g. Maintenance, Braking Performance, etc) is up-to-scratch / spot-on, just in case one day the undesirable or unthinkable happens.

No Bullying ..... It's your choice because ultimately, it's your risk / liability. 😉
Perhaps to add to that, correct me if I am wrong.

A Fastrac/Unimog still requires a suitable trailer behind it.
You can use a 16/18/20 tonne capacity trailer behind your tractor as long as the loaded weight is less than 18.34 tonnes or whatever it is. We use 16/18 tonne trailers so that we can still get 13.5 tonnes barley and OSR in them and can fill them up when there is no roadwork involved.
 
Perhaps to add to that, correct me if I am wrong.

A Fastrac/Unimog still requires a suitable trailer behind it.
You can use a 16/18/20 tonne capacity trailer behind your tractor as long as the loaded weight is less than 18.34 tonnes or whatever it is. We use 16/18 tonne trailers so that we can still get 13.5 tonnes barley and OSR in them and can fill them up when there is no roadwork involved.
Both fair comments:-

Perhaps I should have said "Tows a fully-loaded grain trailer of over 13.5 - 14 tonnes capacity" ... but then the total / gross weight will depend on whatever you've got in it (Barley, Wheat, OSR, Beans, Soil?).

Regarding the tractor, just commenting on its own speed of use. Of course anything towed at speed by it (trailer or trailed implement) must also satisfy all statutory requirements, a good few of which become more demanding above certain operating speeds. :confused:
 

roscoe erf

Member
Livestock Farmer
I can appreciate where you're coming from, but the vast majority of us who work with/alongside Owners & Users are just trying to provide honest guidance which will withstand any form of scrutiny anyone may wish to throw at it.

The Bottom Line is that times have moved on and ag. equipment & farming practices have changed, but (On-Road) Legal limitations haven't kept pace. Legislation in other countries has changed, but many of these now require formal roadworthiness inspections of heavier / faster ag. vehicles.

So, Hands Up who:-
- drives a Tractor (not a Fastrac or Unimog) over 25 mph / 40 km/h?
- tows a Grain Trailer of over 13.5 - 14 tonnes capacity?

If you do either you are breaking UK Law .... No scaremongering or bullying ..... Just fact. ..... You most likely will never get stopped, BUT because you're doing it you may consider it wise to ensure everything else about the kit (e.g. Maintenance, Braking Performance, etc) is up-to-scratch / spot-on, just in case one day the undesirable or unthinkable happens.

No Bullying ..... It's your choice because ultimately, it's your risk / liability. 😉
and i'm not disagreeing with any of that having been in the haulage industry many years now as a owner operator i'm fully aware how things are i'm just fed up with pub talk on social media mostly people for what ever reason have an axe to grind or a horse in the race so to speak who use tactic's to scare people into believing they are doing wrong breaking the law going to spend long times hiding the soap in the showers and not picking it up to get custom /start rumours of illegality that just are lies .
 

cosmagedon

Member
Location
North Wales
where from please? I hate the way they operate currently.
From NH, I did have the part number written down somewhere but misplaced it. Here's a picture showing the difference though.
2018-07-08 17.31.39.jpg
2018-07-08 17.31.51 (1).jpg
 

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