Would you support a united Ireland?
- Thread starter Sweepa
- Start date
DUP and Paisley Snr., had a murky past association with loyalist paramilitaries. Whiter that white, they certainly are not.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4591268/amp/The-terror-links-Ian-Paisley-s-DUP-party.html
Wellytrack
Member
Paisley Snr is plenty guilty of inflammation of sectarian tensions sure. The other stuff with paramilitaries no.
A definite mistake none the less.
Never a justification for tit for tat.
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Not surprised you'd want to pin paramilitary activity on DUP. Anything to discredit Unionism. Everyone knows that Paisley was an idealist. He was also mainly full of hot air and bluster. Not a serious politician, negotiator or intellectual - but really rather talented at making a noise that caught people's attention, from religion to politics.
Part of that nnoise making was some kind of idealistic harking back to the old days of the original Ulster Volunteer Force, which was to stand up and fight honourably on a battlefield for it's land, should that be necessary. Not intending to defend Paisley at all, but thats what I think he had in mind. The disgusting group that was to call itself the UVF, who crept around in the dark, murdering people, was a disgrace to the memory of Edward Carson and Unionism. Paisley certainly tarnished his reputation in the eyes of most right thinking Unionists by drawing into the sphere of those people in the eighties and stirring them up with irresponsible language. It took til the new millennium for memories to subside enough for enough people to vote for the DUP to get them somewhere. Today that party is led by a Church of Ireland Ulster Unionist. Who'd have thought it.
First off all i want to say I'm not a fan of the DUP never have voted for them never will, always been a UUP man (and sometimes sdlp)
to try and make out the rev Ian was connected to terrorism in the same way as the SF leaderships was, is fantasy
also remember while people make a big deal how SF reacher out the hand of friendship and how they made the peace, had Rev ian not reach out his hand to take SF hand, peace would not have came, a number in the DuP never forgive him (sammy, gregory and nigel and been looking for a way to get young Ian out )
also if rev Ian and martin were still in charge, N.I. would not be in the mess it is atm
to try and make out the rev Ian was connected to terrorism in the same way as the SF leaderships was, is fantasy
also remember while people make a big deal how SF reacher out the hand of friendship and how they made the peace, had Rev ian not reach out his hand to take SF hand, peace would not have came, a number in the DuP never forgive him (sammy, gregory and nigel and been looking for a way to get young Ian out )
also if rev Ian and martin were still in charge, N.I. would not be in the mess it is atm
Ian Paisley Snr., famously said "never, ever trust the British, when it comes to the status of the union with NI".
Of course, he was absolutely correct, and undoubtedly with the passage of time, NI as a part of that union,
was never going to be at the core or London's strategic thinking. NI, was always vulnerable to being used as
a bit of loose change, petty cash if you will, to be thrown in as a luck penny in some deal or other.
Well the ties that bind NI to UK, look like they are going to be thinned down to a mere thread, as TM tries to rescue
the country as a whole, from being pushed into an economic black hole by the Old Etonian rump of the Tory party.
Economically of course it's fantastic news for NI. Best of all worlds. Free access to EU markets, no bits of old galvanize and
broken pallets, erected at the border to stop sheep rambling about the place. The all Ireland economy and NI's place within that
will continue to grow very vigorously, and no doubt the last remaining thread to London, will fall into the Irish Sea within a generation.
TM might well be the PM, who finally cut the umbilical cord to the mainland .....................
https://www.bloombergquint.com/poli...tious-brexit-plan-for-irish-border#gs.3kuMZdk
Of course, he was absolutely correct, and undoubtedly with the passage of time, NI as a part of that union,
was never going to be at the core or London's strategic thinking. NI, was always vulnerable to being used as
a bit of loose change, petty cash if you will, to be thrown in as a luck penny in some deal or other.
Well the ties that bind NI to UK, look like they are going to be thinned down to a mere thread, as TM tries to rescue
the country as a whole, from being pushed into an economic black hole by the Old Etonian rump of the Tory party.
Economically of course it's fantastic news for NI. Best of all worlds. Free access to EU markets, no bits of old galvanize and
broken pallets, erected at the border to stop sheep rambling about the place. The all Ireland economy and NI's place within that
will continue to grow very vigorously, and no doubt the last remaining thread to London, will fall into the Irish Sea within a generation.
TM might well be the PM, who finally cut the umbilical cord to the mainland .....................
https://www.bloombergquint.com/poli...tious-brexit-plan-for-irish-border#gs.3kuMZdk
Joe
Member
- Location
- Carlow Ireland
I hate nationalism of any code, and unionism is a form of nationalism. But the above I think is way to simplistic a view and one that is thrown around a lot recently. How anyone believes that a simple switch in system in the north from Unionism to a United Ireland will occur simply through time is beyond me with the cultural links one side holds to London, especially considering the pain it went through to get to where it is now. Only liberalisation of Northern politics with some sort of modern structure in place will get it to where it needs to be, this constant shouts of united Ireland or maintain the union helps neither side settle with the other.
TBH north will probably be forced into a new think on solution as Ireland becomes more liberal and church/state connections are divorced in line with majority of the populations thinking and the union continues to be weakened as seems to be occurring with the UK.
caveman
Member
- Location
- East Sussex.
"according to a person familiar with the matter who declined to be named".. ...
Yeah.
Right.
Of course. Standard procedure. The “leak”. Get it out there, let the natives have their war dance, burn a few effigies, etc, ...... taking the initial steam out of it. Then the heavyweights in London put a bit of stick about, throw in a few billion on top of the last billion pound bribe to Arlene, just to give the DUP something to dress up as a victory!!!
Politics eh!!!. Marginally more civilised affair than the annual Ballinasloe horse fair....
The impression I always remember is that Rev. Paisley did not participate in violence but he sure as hell incited it.
Sweepa
Member
- Location
- Northern Ireland
A bigoted of the highest order, although he mellowed out as time passed.
Fair enough point, tell the shinners to stop referring to Northern Ireland as the north and we'll call it quits
kfpben
Member
- Location
- Mid Hampshire
Say there’s a referendum on a united ireland in NI.
Say the nationalists sneak a close win. Surely that would result in half the country burning and the possibility of a full blown civil war?
I’ve only been to Belfast for a couple of days before but a normal place it ain’t!
Or am I missing something and all the flags and murals are just for gags these days?
Say the nationalists sneak a close win. Surely that would result in half the country burning and the possibility of a full blown civil war?
I’ve only been to Belfast for a couple of days before but a normal place it ain’t!
Or am I missing something and all the flags and murals are just for gags these days?
- Location
- Limousin
A united Ireland would have to have a referendum on both sides of the boarder And the risk of civil unrest would be almost 100%. However, an independent NI could be a different kettle of fish, with a bit of thought about it's positioning it could economically, do very nicely out of it.
kfpben
Member
- Location
- Mid Hampshire
But the Unionists/Loyalists are British above all else. I can't see them supporting an independent NI.
It would be seen as the thin end of the wedge by many.
- Location
- Beragh, Co Tyrone, Northern Ireland
In a sense Ulster nationalism/independence is a reaction by some unionists (fringe belief) as a kind of protection against any possible "sell out" by Westminster. Waxes and wanes depending on the political climate.
- Location
- Northern Ireland
What is crucial to understand is that it's possible to freely express an Irish identity within a UK Northern Ireland. One can participate if one wishes in communities and organisations that are organised on an all-island basis, with Irish themes and identities, or to participate in the same way in things that are British and organised across the UK. No one is forced to be British if they don't want to. That is the freedom we all enjoy today. It's a good arrangement.
In the event of a poll which decided to join us with the republic of Ireland, the ability to identify and live as British on your own turf would be removed. This has always been the aim of Irish nationalists, not just Sinn Fein - to remove all traces of British identity from Ireland. And that is what they will do. You then have a minority population fighting against a state-sponsored suppression of their national and cultural identites. And that never ends well.
In the event of a poll which decided to join us with the republic of Ireland, the ability to identify and live as British on your own turf would be removed. This has always been the aim of Irish nationalists, not just Sinn Fein - to remove all traces of British identity from Ireland. And that is what they will do. You then have a minority population fighting against a state-sponsored suppression of their national and cultural identites. And that never ends well.
Changing demographics in NI and the sea change in ROI society, are the elements which will feed into any change in NI status in a future referendum on the issue.
Peter Robinson recently tried to kick start a debate within Unionism on the issue. Sadly however, that internal debate probably won’t happen until the current crop of DUP leaders collect their pensions.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...livered-a-wake-up-call-for-unionism-1.3581228
Peter Robinson recently tried to kick start a debate within Unionism on the issue. Sadly however, that internal debate probably won’t happen until the current crop of DUP leaders collect their pensions.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...livered-a-wake-up-call-for-unionism-1.3581228
- Location
- Northern Ireland
I quite agree with Feeney when he says that moderate Catholics won't vote against a sovereignty change while DUP politicians are offending them on a regular basis.
What most of the electorate wants - well certainly the middle classes - is what we already have. A society with equal opportunity and reasonable freedom of expression, a flow of money etc. And yet the electorate as a whole (surely including middle class voters) chose the two worst parties available to them to be their representatives. Ordinary peaceful people, having weathered the troubles, finally caved in and voted for the kind of division and chaos the IRA had spent thirty years trying to install.
What most of the electorate wants - well certainly the middle classes - is what we already have. A society with equal opportunity and reasonable freedom of expression, a flow of money etc. And yet the electorate as a whole (surely including middle class voters) chose the two worst parties available to them to be their representatives. Ordinary peaceful people, having weathered the troubles, finally caved in and voted for the kind of division and chaos the IRA had spent thirty years trying to install.