Yeoman / Farmer

[Muck Spreader]

Yeoman of England that's me.

You want to be careful claiming that. This is a "Yeoman of England", one of the worst tractors ever built.

 

[endeavour]

Well must declare myself as a serf made it to husbandman,although having no desire to agree with your classification I would prefer to accept that in life there will be those who through birth rite will be yeoman men . It is the politics of envy that erode any society not the school of ambition. Do not consider yourself indomitable lack of ambition will place you as a serf very quickly.

 

[Tarw Coch]

less than 100 acres

Sorry, must get glasses!

 

[Pilgrimmick]

less than 100 acres

"Not normally LESS than 100 Acres"

 

[Paddington]

I suppose a tenant farmer with a few acres in medieval England could be described as a villein of the piece ? Boom, boom.

 

[borderterribles]

You want to be careful claiming that. This is a "Yeoman of England", one of the worst tractors ever built.
View attachment 684614

Those Turner tractors may not have been a commercial success, but they are extremely desirable nowadays. I wish I'd bought one when I had the chance.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Isn't this what sets farming apart from other "careers" or at least used to set it apart before it became more corporate and industrial.

The yeoman class was never servant, never gentry, but fitted somewhere in between.

It wasn't just about farming either, it was a social niche and still is.

Is this what people from outside fail to understand? Living the life of a yeoman wasn't necessarily about maximising efficiency, it was more about enjoying a certain amount of independence and freedom. In some ways farming was a sideline and still is for some, a bothersome necessity rather than a raison detre.

You can trace the the yeoman families in this district back to Norman times though the spelling of the names has changed slightly. Pagnell has become Payne etc. Very few are left as landholders, most having being integrated into modern industrial society or their modest holdings merged into large estates that belong to the gentry.

But some remain, preferring a degree of independence over the chance maybe for greater wealth, but at the price of losing ones freedom and becoming a modern day bondsman.

So some people who might appear to be farmers aren't actually farmers first and foremost. They are yeomen who just happen to do a bit of farming. They aren't entirely beholden to it, some aren't particularly interested in it, some enjoy it, some have to do it. This is what sets farming apart.

There never was and never will be yeomen accountants or solicitors.

Couldn't agree more @DrWazzock - my goal isn't to farm, by anyone's measure, but to simply enjoy my life - the only one I will get.

My ancestors from Somerset were in the Yeoman farmer category - I imagine him to have had very clean hands, with about 12 staff to do the work and 4 more to keep the house

Today, the economics lend themselves to me having about 130 cattle to do the work and so nobody works much here - I don't spend a great deal, and certainly we are fairly self sufficient; so what they eventually fetch at the end keeps it going just fine.
Sheep and lambs keep it going forward.

But I believe you hit the nail squarely, with your OP - many will adopt a more businesslike approach and these expectations of fortune seem to provide much disappointment.

An good investment and a rewarding pasttime, that's how I see our lot. I am certainly not worried unduly about how other folk measure their own productivity or efficiency - we only strive to be effective, by making some money from it each year.

There is no point trying to compete with large scale businesses, may as well simply leave them in our dust

 

[Henarar]

There is no point trying to compete with large scale businesses, may as well simply leave them in our dust

But you need a large pie or is that turnover according to your mate down the road

 

[Ffermer Bach]

does the idea of yeoman farmer exist anywhere other than in the views of "yeomen farmers"? I wonder if the rest of society recognises it?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

But you need a large pie or is that turnover according to your mate down the road

Each to their own - I plan on keeping most of the turnover for us, not good for the NZ economy but great for OUR economy

"Feeding the world" - they can go plant some turnover seeds!
(Pay me some more, and then we will see about all that.)
We just work on making better margins instead - freedom from recurring costs

Feeding and being part of the community - that's my deal:
I want a BIG funeral, and for all the right reasons there's got to be people with time to make the difference in these small towns, or they become retirement villages.

Take money out of the equation, this is the stuff that matters... we have enough of all that we need to be free, that's the bit worth striving for.

 

[Pilgrimmick]

does the idea of yeoman farmer exist anywhere other than in the views of "yeomen farmers"? I wonder if the rest of society recognises it?

The rest of society barely recognise farmers, so the concept of a Yeoman farmer will be beyond them. It is though, a historical title and role, mostly outmoded now.
The concept is a good one though.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Each to their own - I plan on keeping most of the turnover for us, not good for the NZ economy but great for OUR economy

"Feeding the world" - they can go plant some turnover seeds!
(Pay me some more, and then we will see about all that.)
We just work on making better margins instead - freedom from recurring costs

Feeding and being part of the community - that's my deal:
I want a BIG funeral, and for all the right reasons there's got to be people with time to make the difference in these small towns, or they become retirement villages.

Take money out of the equation, this is the stuff that matters... we have enough of all that we need to be free, that's the bit worth striving for.

as far as money goes, I think it is better for the economy and country (if we ignore the fact that the world is a finite place, and we are "using it up" faster than it is replenishing itself) for everyone to spend everything they have, and borrow to keep the wheels turning, but for the individual, it is better to save, only buy what you need and not borrow, and therefore the government tries to encourage us to spend everything!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

does the idea of yeoman farmer exist anywhere other than in the views of "yeomen farmers"? I wonder if the rest of society recognises it?

Probably they are unable to see it?

We have been discussing holistic farming planning a bit lately and this is the crux (my take on the world outside my circle of influence governments have departments, so in their world everything fits into a box - but none of them actually work together or communicate, a lack of connected thinking to quote @silverfox
The obvious trickle-down effect of all this reductionism/specialisation is to simply lump all farmers together, as many will take the posts of Walter and possibly my own; but we are far from all the same.

In holistic-speak, our contexts are different: we have environmental, social, financial concerns to consider, which is one more than many of those who try to categorise and generalise us - and most all of us will have different weighting on all of these.

In short, in their race to make enough money through enough work - I don't see how they can recognise the lifestyle, freedom, not-for-profit - social side of the equation of this facet of agriculture.

In Great Britain, this really is saddening, because in my impression this is what made her great in the first place: the continued prosperity of many.

There have been so many outside factors leaning on the wall I fear nothing will stand it back up again, not wishing to mention the B or S words but I personally feel these smaller operations are worthy of protection whether by paying a basic living wage, or whatever the method.

But short answer, no, they cannot see it.

The answers are right there in front of them, but too busy keeping the big hamster wheel turning, they must wonder why the view is always of another hamster's arse in front

Simple things are lost from plain sight when they are dissected and examined too much - which is where modernism and capitalism take us in your case, a 70 million piece jigsaw puzzle!

 

[Bury the Trash]

blimey i called that wrong...i already thought you were

you're a cheeky fudger .....

go and clip those sheep.....

 

[Farmer Roy]

does the idea of yeoman farmer exist anywhere other than in the views of "yeomen farmers"? I wonder if the rest of society recognises it?

ask anyone here what a yeomen farmer is and theyd ask WTF ???

I don't even know what a yeoman is . . . ( I haven't bothered reading the beginning of this thread )

 

[Kiwi Pete]

ask anyone here what a yeomen farmer is and theyd ask WTF ???

I don't even know what a yeoman is . . . ( I haven't bothered reading the beginning of this thread )

There are some quite good definitions at the beginning - but in broad terms, somewhere in the claas system between the landed gentry and the "ordinary" classes - a landed smallholder, if you like - but also well placed in the community due to this "in-betweeny status" between the upper class and the middle/working class folk

My understanding of the present-day systems are that the 'landed gentry' have most all of the advantage: assets of huge capital value, passive income by way of the SFP/CAP/BPS or whatever it is called today; tenants also, in that they have land to farm without the capital employed... and in the midst, the owned smallholder: forgotten, largely disadvantaged due to the above, and the great post war push to be more self sufficient in food production.

Quite the paradox, really: penalise the non-reliant, by incentivising reliance, in doing so unravelling the very fabric of the rural British countryside... in the name of supporting the rural British countryside, and being more self-reliant !!!

Merely my opinions, of course, but I still think it is sad to see smallholdings that have been farmed by families for generations, swallowed up by the big boys, endorsed by government policy and backed by the taxpayer (which they no doubt are, too).

(This feudal system is difficult for an outsider to really come to terms with, but I hope I was close to the mark.)

In global terms, the Yeoman is almost the idol of the small American farmer: self reliant, self sufficient, timeless and immune.... dare I say holistically motivated?

Certainly how I want to be.

 

[Farmer Roy]

My understanding of the present-day systems are that the 'landed gentry' have most all of the advantage: assets of huge capital value, passive income by way of the SFP/CAP/BPS or whatever it is called today; tenants also, in that they have land to farm without the capital employed... and in the midst, the owned smallholder: forgotten, largely disadvantaged due to the above, and the great post war push to be more self sufficient in food production.

Quite the paradox, really: penalise the non-reliant, by incentivising reliance, in doing so unravelling the very fabric of the rural British countryside... in the name of supporting the rural British countryside, and being more self-reliant !!!

Merely my opinions, of course, but I still think it is sad to see smallholdings that have been farmed by families for generations, swallowed up by the big boys, endorsed by government policy and backed by the taxpayer (which they no doubt are, too).

(This feudal system is difficult for an outsider to really come to terms with, but I hope I was close to the mark.)

how very English

 

[JP1]

Honest and straightforward spring to mind (as well as portly / well fed in images of yore)

Where Rachel works at her hotel there was a worry that a farmer member of a visiting group had not put a card number down. When Rachel heard, she said the £500 or so would be fine ; as it was. It's not the money, it's the mindset

 

[PSQ]

I dont know about Yeomen farmers, but in times past this farm was divided up into tenanted 'Husband-lands' of 32 acres or there about, "large enough to keep a family and a team of oxen", apparently!

There is also quite a lot of reference in old texts to 'cottars', who would presumably have been people subsistence farming on something like a large allotment.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

how very English

British, really.
Although Scotland has had perhaps different adaptations, perhaps; it has always been a very intrinsic part of Britain, since early times, to keep the great unwashed poor at the expense of the elite.
Protection, and it still exists, even though the class/caste system has largely been broken down the very rich and powerful still want to keep a firm hold of large tracts of land and wealth - this largely does explain how and why those of us outside never really "get it", in many respects.

I know I don't, and I have gone to lengths to learn about these things, but protection of the wealth has always been a cornerstone of the United Kingdom in some way, shape or form- and war, governance and governmentality, too.

These are intrinsic and were put there for good reason.... whether these things are still fit for purpose in socialist 2018 is open to debate!