Young Britons really want socialism (without paying for it)

[Mek]

Where have you been for the last 12 years?

Sorry,I’m still not following you.

 

[Ashtree]

Sorry,I’m still not following you.

Make sure you keep it that way….

 

[wanton dwarf]

Bless you. Enough people voted for the party led by him, to force T May to throw a big fat bung to the Ulster Flat Earth party to keep the Corrupt Conservative Party in power. That was a very close call indeed.

Yeah right .. Theresa May who called The Conservatives "The Nasty Party" and sacked 20,000 Police and create the "Backstab", she was an idiot.

 

[wanton dwarf]

What would you expect a senior Civil Servant to earn, £10k and some food vouchers? It might be galling, but most of these folk could easily earn 3 or 4 times that in private industry.

Earning 3 to 4 times that in private industry doing WHAT exactly ?

Failing to create an epidemic, failing to control borders, failing to create a mass transport system for the country, failing to uphold democracy, failing to control diseases being imported on trees, failing to uphold UK jobs within the EU .. failing to ensure fire safe materials are installed in cladding ...

I bet none of them could hold down any responsible job or any manual job or any mentally challenging desk job.

And to put things into context, most of you that are commmenting DO NOT EVEN LIVE HERE - so it's got FUDGE ALL to do with you.

 

[Ashtree]

Earning 3 to 4 times that in private industry doing WHAT exactly ?

Failing to create an epidemic, failing to control borders, failing to create a mass transport system for the country, failing to uphold democracy, failing to control diseases being imported on trees, failing to uphold UK jobs within the EU .. failing to ensure fire safe materials are installed in cladding ...

I bet none of them could hold down any responsible job or any manual job or any mentally challenging desk job.

And to put things into context, most of you that are commmenting DO NOT EVEN LIVE HERE - so it's got FUDGE ALL to do with you.

So you want your civil servants to create epidemics. Bless you, but you are priceless….

 

[wanton dwarf]

So you want your civil servants to create epidemics. Bless you, but you are priceless….

Excuse me whilst I have a yawn .. oh and another.

 

[stewart]

No sensible business in the 70s would ever consider large investment modernising their businesses as it would immediately be met with strike action for a pay rise due to any change in working practises, instead of the unions waiting to see if it made the company more profitable to be able to pay higher wages they simply crippled any company considering this before the investment was made!
When has a trade union ever taken over a failing company, invested it's own money & made a success of it, socialism is simply spending other peoples money with no responsibility for the outcome.

Yes lack of investment and bad management were a large problem but so were the unions going on strike every five minutes and demarcation was the main problem.
When the japanese came in there was no such problems or issues, they had one union not loads which lead to egos clashing, they had flexible working practices and perhaps most importantly a fresh start. Look at the NHS today still hamstrung by political dogma if nissan et al ran it we would have a far better service, my mrs works in it and its unbelievable how bad its run and how many poor workers there are in it.

You both seem to be missing the point that the unions came to fruition due to the poor working conditions in place and the poor management, with many executives having more concern for who had the keys to the executive bathroom or the privileges of the executive dining suite than they were with what was happening on the shop floor.
When we were farming in the uk we were producer retailers selling direct to customers at retail and wholesale, quite a few of our customers were the various factories not too far from the farm, I had little time for the unionised way of working but could quite understand it when seeing how the managers operated, the companies got the workforce they deserved.

 

[stewart]

Civil Servants are now earning £150K+ plus living allowances and pensions. Ordinary "Plebs" have stood still.

Would be nice to see some admission that financing the EU, Foreign Aid and Covid have all played their part.

TBH I think Liberal London is going to bring the whole country down.


No one is going to vote for a Party which puts Jeremy Corbyn as the leader - that should be blatantly obvious to a dead fish.

£150k is a reasonable wage but not that exciting.

 

[stewart]

And to put things into context, most of you that are commmenting DO NOT EVEN LIVE HERE - so it's got FUDGE ALL to do with you.

Global Britain??

 

[Muck Spreader]

Earning 3 to 4 times that in private industry doing WHAT exactly ?

Failing to create an epidemic, failing to control borders, failing to create a mass transport system for the country, failing to uphold democracy, failing to control diseases being imported on trees, failing to uphold UK jobs within the EU .. failing to ensure fire safe materials are installed in cladding ...

I bet none of them could hold down any responsible job or any manual job or any mentally challenging desk job.

And to put things into context, most of you that are commmenting DO NOT EVEN LIVE HERE - so it's got FUDGE ALL to do with you.

You are right, I don't live in Russia.

 

[BrianV]

You both seem to be missing the point that the unions came to fruition due to the poor working conditions in place and the poor management, with many executives having more concern for who had the keys to the executive bathroom or the privileges of the executive dining suite than they were with what was happening on the shop floor.
When we were farming in the uk we were producer retailers selling direct to customers at retail and wholesale, quite a few of our customers were the various factories not too far from the farm, I had little time for the unionised way of working but could quite understand it when seeing how the managers operated, the companies got the workforce they deserved.

I think it was more a case of 6 of one & 1/2 doz of the other, the unions were already well established but got into the habit of over flexing their muscles with devastating effect, no company would risk large investment at that time without curbs on union strike action!
It took Maggie to break the union strangle hold before companies would start to invest.

 

[BrianV]

£150k is a reasonable wage but not that exciting.

Sounds an awful lot but by the time you take almost 50% in tax etc it doesn't quite seem so excessive especially if renting in London.

 

[Danllan]

Earning 3 to 4 times that in private industry doing WHAT exactly ?

Failing to create an epidemic, failing to control borders, failing to create a mass transport system for the country, failing to uphold democracy, failing to control diseases being imported on trees, failing to uphold UK jobs within the EU .. failing to ensure fire safe materials are installed in cladding ...

I bet none of them could hold down any responsible job or any manual job or any mentally challenging desk job.

And to put things into context, most of you that are commmenting DO NOT EVEN LIVE HERE - so it's got FUDGE ALL to do with you.

Have to admit I'm with @Asstree on not wanting my public servants to create epidemics but, that aside, I agree with your post entirely.

Dominic Cummings is not someone with whom I would get on personally; but he was 100% right in stating that our public servants need a major kick up the backside.

This isn't a 'right-wing' thing, I've friends on the left / are pro-EU - and know of many others - who all think that these people are paid far too much and do nowhere near enough of a good job. And the UK isn't the only country with a very large percentage of people who think this.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Have to admit I'm with @Asstree on not wanting my public servants to create epidemics but, that aside, I agree with your post entirely.

Dominic Cummings is not someone with whom I would get on personally; but he was 100% right in stating that our public servants need a major kick up the backside.

This isn't a 'right-wing' thing, I've friends on the left / are pro-EU - and know of many others - who all think that these people are paid far too much and do nowhere near enough of a good job. And the UK isn't the only country with a very large percentage of people who think this.

There are only around 500 out of 430,000 civil servants who earn >£150k and they are almost all in two departments, namely Transport and Health & Social Security. Where they are involved in quasi commercial projects like HS2 private health initiatives etc, and you have to pay the private going rate if you want someone who is any use.

 

[Danllan]

There are only around 500 out of 430,000 civil servants who earn >£150k and they are almost all in two departments, namely Transport and Health & Social Security. Where they are involved in quasi commercial projects like HS2 private health initiatives etc, and you have to pay the private going rate if you want someone who is any use.

Not so, there are many, many more; we've several in Carm's alone and the 'leader' earns more than the PM and just oversaw several hundred thousands being spent on... a road sign...

 

[Muck Spreader]

Not so, there are many, many more; we've several in Carm's alone and the 'leader' earns more than the PM and just oversaw several hundred thousands being spent on... a road sign...

But he is not a civil servant.
However, I definitely agree that many council leaders and university VC's to name but two, have remuneration packages way beyond the scope of the job.

 

[Danllan]

But he is not a civil servant.
However, I definitely agree that many council leaders and university VC's to name but two, have remuneration packages way beyond the scope of the job.

You restricted comment to Civil Servants, I referred to 'public servants', which includes them and the council types, and others.

For me it's the fact that public money is not spent as wisely as it should be; be that at a local, regional or national level - I suppose internationally too, in terms of aid and - for you - across the EU. In all these instances there are just too many 'projects' that are obviously a waste before they start, and so shouldn't be started, and too many people who simply are not worth the money they're paid.

Of course we are all human, and some seemingly good ideas just don't work when they're tried, and that's fair enough and it includes me, you and everyone else... but so many ridiculous and obviously over-priced things are allowed, that it makes it dazzlingly obvious that the people allowing them shouldn't be in a position to do so.

For the record, I also think a huge number of people in the private sector are overpaid, but they don't have a monopoly so I'm not obliged to use their services and finance them; this goes for soccer 'stars' and people in business alike.

I think that a lot of people - particularly, but not only - in public service are underpaid, some by a wee bit, some greatly. But I'd start by slashing the pay of the bigwigs before raising that of the others, although it would be the ultimate intention.

 

[Muck Spreader]

You restricted comment to Civil Servants, I referred to 'public servants', which includes them and the council types, and others.

For me it's the fact that public money is not spent as wisely as it should be; be that at a local, regional or national level - I suppose internationally too, in terms of aid and - for you - across the EU. In all these instances there are just too many 'projects' that are obviously a waste before they start, and so shouldn't be started, and too many people who simply are not worth the money they're paid.

Of course we are all human, and some seemingly good ideas just don't work when they're tried, and that's fair enough and it includes me, you and everyone else... but so many ridiculous and obviously over-priced things are allowed, that it makes it dazzlingly obvious that the people allowing them shouldn't be in a position to do so.

For the record, I also think a huge number of people in the private sector are overpaid, but they don't have a monopoly so I'm not obliged to use their services and finance them; this goes for soccer 'stars' and people in business alike.

I think that a lot of people - particularly, but not only - in public service are underpaid, some by a wee bit, some greatly. But I'd start by slashing the pay of the bigwigs before raising that of the others, although it would be the ultimate intention.

I only quoted the Civil Service because that's what @wanton dwarf was commenting on.

Can't dispute your second para. There does appear to be endless public sector projects that seem to badly thought through, badly managed and often both. But maybe we just don't hear about all the successful ones as they aren't newsworthy. After all, 'Hospital built ahead of schedule and under budget' is never going to cut it in the Daily Mail.

IMO, silly levels of private sector pay particularly at board level, is usually down to boardroom back scratching and lazy fund managers.

 

[Danllan]

...Can't dispute your second para. There does appear to be endless public sector projects that seem to badly thought through, badly managed and often both. But maybe we just don't hear about all the successful ones as they aren't newsworthy. After all, 'Hospital built ahead of schedule and under budget' is never going to cut it in the Daily Mail...

I've thought about that now and then, and have come to the conclusion that anything like that would have whichever politico(s) who could claim responsibility for such a thing trumpeting about it from the rooftops, and that we'd never hear the end of it.

This isn't the case, which leads to the rather troubling conclusion that it rarely / never happens...

 

[caveman]

After all, 'Hospital built ahead of schedule and under budget' is never going to cut it in the Daily Mail.

Now there's an opportunity to make a name for yourself.
How did you miss that and go so wrong?