Your chance to help design ELMS

[Steevo]

Hmm. Many of the options take at least 5-10 years to come good e.g. arable reversion. Wild flowers take 3-5 years and nectar flower plots at least 2 years.

I see. Thank you.

 

[ajcc]

The fundamental problem for all agriculturalists is that the people making the policy are relying/allowing on the National Trust to lead them.

 

[steveR]

Hmm. Many of the options take at least 5-10 years to come good e.g. arable reversion. Wild flowers take 3-5 years and nectar flower plots at least 2 years.

Which brings us back to the concern that many farmers will have, that is that after the 5-10 years, will the plot of land in a long term option, then become sacrosanct and not allowed to return to mainstream productuction. As I understand, has been happened under CS....

In theory, the 3-5 year type options will hopefully be left alone.

 

[Brisel]

Which brings us back to the concern that many farmers will have, that is that after the 5-10 years, will the plot of land in a long term option, then become sacrosanct and not allowed to return to mainstream productuction. As I understand, has been happened under CS....

In theory, the 3-5 year type options will hopefully be left alone.

The arable reversion under previous CS/HLS schemes was prevented from being returned to ploughing because it became "interesting" Massive own goal IMO that puts people off these options. Ask @ajcc

 

[farmerm]

apparently there is is going to be 70,000 advisors/inspectors. Thats half of the current BPS money gone.
I cant see ELMS being anything more than what is currently available on countryside stewardship for profitable and productive farms. I completely discounting any kind of government money business planning going foward. Anything we can get will be a bonus. We seem to be farming in the way they want anyway so may be able to get something. Prepare for the worst hope for the best!

Only half? How big is the budget? Advisor/inspector salary + car, pension, perks etc would surely average at least £40K/yr in costs, that is surely getting on for £3bn or about 100% of the current budget is it not?

 

[midlandslad]

Where has the 70,000 figure come from?

 

[farmerm]

Where has the 70,000 figure come from?

Chinese whispers hopefully

 

[DRC]

Hmm. Many of the options take at least 5-10 years to come good e.g. arable reversion. Wild flowers take 3-5 years and nectar flower plots at least 2 years.

I had about 10% of the farm in arable reversion when I was in a 10 yr HLS. Water draining off these fields towards a mere in sssi. I think the payment was £125/ acre with limited grazing or a late cut after 15th July . At the end of the agreement instead of just saying carry on, they wanted to reclassify it as p pasture with a £30 payment. As a tenant I couldn’t afford that, so it all got ploughed up again and now often grows maize. So are they really interested in outcomes or just want control over us , or were they as thick as sh!t .

 

[farmerm]

Where has the 70,000 figure come from?

Chinese whispers hopefully

 

[farmerm]

I had about 10% of the farm in arable reversion when I was in a 10 yr HLS. Water draining off these fields towards a mere in sssi. I think the payment was £125/ acre with limited grazing or a late cut after 15th July . At the end of the agreement instead of just saying carry on, they wanted to reclassify it as p pasture with a £30 payment. As a tenant I couldn’t afford that, so it all got ploughed up again and now often grows maize. So are they really interested in outcomes or just want control over us , or were they as thick as sh!t .

You might have got away lucky. Had they allowed it to run another 5 years uncultivated it might have then fallen under Environmental Impact Assessment regulations and needed permission and agreement from Natural England before you could plough it up....

 

[DRC]

You might have got away lucky. Had they allowed it to run another 5 years uncultivated it might have then fallen under Environmental Impact Assessment regulations and needed permission and agreement from Natural England before you could plough it up....

That’s true.

 

[ajd132]

Only half? How big is the budget? Advisor/inspector salary + car, pension, perks etc would surely average at least £40K/yr in costs, that is surely getting on for £3bn or about 100% of the current budget is it not?

I was going on about 20-30k but I think you are closer to the mark.

 

[farmerm]

I was going on about 20-30k but I think you are closer to the mark.

Indeed, cost of employing someone is much more than just their wage... I haven't even allowed for the costs of the human resources, training, administration. support staff, IT people and infrastructure, hell of a operation in itself.

 

[steveR]

The arable reversion under previous CS/HLS schemes was prevented from being returned to ploughing because it became "interesting" Massive own goal IMO that puts people off these options. Ask @ajcc

Yep. Even a hint of this in ELMS will be a killer...

I feel the Severn Trent STEPS schemes will avoid these issues, as you can rotate them to suit...

 

[steveR]

I had about 10% of the farm in arable reversion when I was in a 10 yr HLS. Water draining off these fields towards a mere in sssi. I think the payment was £125/ acre with limited grazing or a late cut after 15th July . At the end of the agreement instead of just saying carry on, they wanted to reclassify it as p pasture with a £30 payment. As a tenant I couldn’t afford that, so it all got ploughed up again and now often grows maize. So are they really interested in outcomes or just want control over us , or were they as thick as sh!t .

We have discussed this in the past as we both suffered this moronic approach from NE/RPA... The plough was rolling within days of my Agreement finishing as a neighbour needed land for cereals for home feeding.

Possibly we had a lucky escape though when you hear of the problems some had with arable reversion?

Heard owt from STW yet...??

 

[DRC]

We have discussed this in the past as we both suffered this moronic approach from NE/RPA... The plough was rolling within days of my Agreement finishing as a neighbour needed land for cereals for home feeding.

Possibly we had a lucky escape though when you hear of the problems some had with arable reversion?

Heard owt from STW yet...??

yes, a lucky escape, especially as it had become nothing but cocksfoot. Big clumps of the stuff.
not heard from ST , but adviser let me change a few things today after a change of heart on the legume rich ley.
it was supposed to be going on a field after a late drilled wheat,and I’m thinking it’ll be late harvested and difficult to establish .

 

[Tubbylew]

Where has the 70,000 figure come from?

Parlimentry select commitee hearing, there's a link floating about here somewhere, I'll have a look

Edit: For your veiwing pleasure,


Edit edit: aparrantly not, can copy link but no good when i post it, flummoxed by the computer sorry, skip to 15:45

Parliamentlive.tv

Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee

www.parliamentlive.tv

 

[JCfarmer]

I think David Kennedy comes across well and I'm not totally against greening or ELMS to an extent. We have nearly enough hedges alone for greening and are applying for stewardships agreements now for the first time since ELS.
It would however be interesting to know if he thought farmers would be classed as 'key workers' if the majority of their farm was feeding wildlife etc, not the british public during the current pandemic and as a country we relied on importing 70% of our food? Grown possibly 1000's of miles away to a far lower standard from outside the UK?
Might this encourage more deforestation in South America as one example in order for them to supply food for a rich country like ours?

 

[DrWazzock]

More and more resource being put into projects that essentially deliver nothing or make a real loss. They will never see a return on the £3 billion meanwhile others abroad will sell us more food and do well out of us. You could not make this up. Politics of the greenies and the student union now mainstream.
What would be so wrong about leaving things to markets and letting things find their own level? Certainly wouldn’t mean I’d pull out hedges and plough every acre. Maybe quite the opposite.

Here is government that feels the need to intervene in every aspect of our lives and businesses. Not sure they are really competent to do so. They are politicians drawn from journalism and the legal profession by and large. I am no longer interested in anything they have to say.

 

[ajd132]

More and more resource being put into projects that essentially deliver nothing or make a real loss. They will never see a return on the £3 billion meanwhile others abroad will sell us more food and do well out of us. You could not make this up. Politics of the greenies and the student union now mainstream.
What would be so wrong about leaving things to markets and letting things find their own level? Certainly wouldn’t mean I’d pull out hedges and plough every acre. Maybe quite the opposite.

Here is government that feels the need to intervene in every aspect of our lives and businesses. Not sure they are really competent to do so. They are politicians drawn from journalism and the legal profession by and large. I am no longer interested in anything they have to say.

Agriculture is so overblown, 70% of people working in this industry don’t add value. This elms stuff just adds to that. Subs going is a good thing and we will find out what we REALLY need to grow profitable crops.