Realistic savings to be gained from auto steer

ZXR17 · Apr 16, 2015

I am considering using auto steer.
What realistic savings could be gained.
The farm is 210 ha of arable. Cultivations are mainly 2 sometimes 3 passes with a 3m Simba express or cultipress. Flat lift used when required. Drilling is with a 4.8 m tine drill. Rolling 6.3 m.
Spraying and liquid fert with a 24m sp sprayer.
Combining 6m header.
Work is all done by myself + student at harvest.
I think my driving is relatively accurate , Liquid fert over lap is showing from zero to average 1 dribble bar, more on side sloping ground.
Culivations and rolling are probably more inaccurate after all its the drilling that I and everyone sees all year!
I am thinking of a Trimble FM 750 + Ez steer which would then easily move from machine to machine. I could then in future get more from it with variable rate etc But , only the sprayer at the moment is capable of doing this. The drill is totally manual.
Obviously ease of use and less fatigue will be my biggest gain but the boss is going to want to know in £'s.

casemx 270 · Apr 16, 2015

From a operators point a view a 750 and ez steer are a very good way to get started in auto steer and gps , you will never want to be without after you have got it set up .

SilliamWhale · Apr 16, 2015

I've just taken the plunge. But as I no till and dont have tramlines its very stressy following the screen. Also it was getting inefficient as I'd miss the odd bit where I can't see so well.

Not had it fitted yet.

Steevo · Apr 16, 2015

If you buy it purely on £'s you'll be disappointed. For a start, even once you've bought it you won't quantify those £'s.

But....if it enables you to achieve something that you couldn't pre-GPS then you'll be delighted with it regardless of the money.

Having bought ours for a similar acreage to you, and i'm delighted with it - but mainly from the things I didn't try and quantify when buying it. Easier working days, less fatigue, faster working etc. I know my tramlines are straighter and more accurately spaced....but I can't put a figure on that in £ so I can't use it to justify how much the system saves me as you are looking to do.

It's less about saving costs to me, as it is about better working. If I can drill a field before it chucks it down with rain by using GPS where before I had to drive slower etc. then that's worth a huge amount more, and that is something people rarely consider when considering GPS etc.

Steevo · Apr 16, 2015

SilliamWhale said:
I've just taken the plunge. But as I no till and dont have tramlines its very stressy following the screen. Also it was getting inefficient as I'd miss the odd bit where I can't see so well.

Not had it fitted yet.

You won't regret it i'm sure. Again, as with your circumstances...it's not so much about cost saving as making a good, practical job of the task in hand. Much better way to accurately justify something imo.

Badshot · Apr 16, 2015

Steevo said:
If you buy it purely on £'s you'll be disappointed. For a start, even once you've bought it you won't quantify those £'s.

But....if it enables you to achieve something that you couldn't pre-GPS then you'll be delighted with it regardless of the money.

Having bought ours for a similar acreage to you, and i'm delighted with it - but mainly from the things I didn't try and quantify when buying it. Easier working days, less fatigue, faster working etc. I know my tramlines are straighter and more accurately spaced....but I can't put a figure on that in £ so I can't use it to justify how much the system saves me as you are looking to do.

It's less about saving costs to me, as it is about better working. If I can drill a field before it chucks it down with rain by using GPS where before I had to drive slower etc. then that's worth a huge amount more, and that is something people rarely consider when considering GPS etc.

Sounds familiar

My neighbours saved 10% of their sprays and fert when they went autosection on their sprayer, which you will be able to do with a 750 and field IQ. Another neighbour saved 5%, I haven't a clue but it makes life a massive amount easier, and spraying in the pitch black is now just the same as in daylight.

So as Steevo says, it is about more than the few things you can easily put a financial value on, I got drilled up 2012, it is unlikely I would have without the auto steer, the headlands were also perfect (no compaction areas) as the RTK allowed me to miss runs with the drill and have no shunting about in wet conditions.. Just these couple of things more than paid for the kit in the first year.

You will not want to do anything without it once you have it.

Lapwing · Apr 17, 2015

As already said, its the ease of use and not having to spend the day & night peering out the front window that makes it invaluable. Make sure you get a system that is ready for whatever correction signal you might need; egnos is ok for the basics, but you will soon want RTK level accuracy to get the most out of it, and unlock codes can be expensive if not already supplied.

moldengineer · Apr 17, 2015

We started with a simple Trimble 150 light bar (that we still use) added ez steer, then a 500 screen, then full autopilot. This started with EGNOS moving to omniscient and now on RTK. What I am saying is you can start simple and build up. You will require something better than EGNOS for drilling, there is a wide range of corrections available that your dealer should be able to advise you on. Unlocks do cost though but in my opinion are worth it.

As to financial benefits it's difficult, all I know is that I get the job done quicker with significantly less overlap. This then improves the accuracy of spraying and Fert spreading as the tramlines are in the right place. The best thing to do is drive your existing tramlines and use the gps to establish error across the field. Our worst case scenario was a 30 acre field and the tramlines were 6 nearly 6 metres out. But there were no gaps in the drilling!! I would say the narrower the machine the more accuracy you require.

Fish · Apr 17, 2015

I have just got going this spring, that is full auto steering to RTK, using a 750 and ez pilot and it's great , would not go back to manual for all the advantages stated above.
But if starting out today from scratch, I would skip the 750 and go for the FM 1000 as its Glonass ready + don't just look at Trimble, Topcon have some real cool stuff.

SilliamWhale · Apr 17, 2015

Steevo said:
You won't regret it i'm sure. Again, as with your circumstances...it's not so much about cost saving as making a good, practical job of the task in hand. Much better way to accurately justify something imo.

Yeah I'm looking forward to it, it will be a step up. The biggest thing will be improving drilling especially with odd shaped fields I also want to miss every 3m drill width to save shunting on headlands - this means I will hopefully have to subsoil less on them.

Brisel · Apr 17, 2015

5-10% in terms of time, overlap, fuel, spares etc. It varies with operator skill and methods. Working in lands is easier with corrected auto steer systems like RTK, RTX, SF2, HP2. Savings are biggest on the most expensive operations like combining. The time saving is far more than a few days each season - less stress, time to look at the job better instead of a steering wheel and line of sight trying to keep a straight line, that has a good value not readily measurable.

Whether or not narrower tramlines are wasting seed, fertiliser and sprays is debatable as unless yield suffers the inputs are not wasted as such. Having more of the field at closer to the intended dose rate is certainly an improvement though & ensures you get more of your inputs working as you wanted. Might save another run in a big field too...

Running a Quadtrac and 4.5m Simba Solo (working width 3.9m) up supposedly 24m tramlines(23.4m) then filling in worked out at 16% overlap due to a narrow last run. At £58/hour 12% less overlap saved £7/hour pays a £9k capital cost back in around 2 years. The gear ought to last 10 years. That's a simple example on a bigger scale but you get the idea.

A really good operator will get less benefit than a sloppy one but no one can really beat a machine, not even @John 1594

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself

ZXR17 · Apr 18, 2015

Thanks for all comments.
I have only used auto steer once before which was the Claas laser eye on a Lexion 600. Ok not a true auto steer by todays standards but it certainly made a huge difference to being more in control of the combine settings etc rather than spending most of the time trying to keep the header in full cut. Far easier unloading on the move too.
I also found that I was far less tired at the end of the day.
I have pretty well decided on a Trimble + Ez steer as this is the most economic way to get auto steer into the tractor ,sprayer and combine.

Douglasmn · Apr 19, 2015

Got a Trimble unit last year, 750. "Just" rangepoint level accuracy. It is awesome though. Drill in bouts so never doing sharp turn, no more stopping and starting. Total accuracy, days in tractor more enjoyable and everything looks nice. My personal opinion is that rangepoint is more than adequate for the average farm. I think RTK has become the latest farming trend that people think they "have" to have to be a real farmer. As far as I can tell unless you're on CTF or doing big acreages of veg then it's totally unnecessary for the cost of it. Probably nice to have(like the over-powered tractors most farmers like to do their best to justify)...but not strictly needed. Have been out plenty of times with tape measure with the rangepoint unit and it's easily within just a few cm. Don't tramlines with drill, put them in after for all obvious benefits and when out with measuring wheel they're bang on. My advice...go for it! Just don't let the salesman trick you into spending 5k more than you actually need to.

John 1594 · Apr 20, 2015

Honestly dont think id ever gain much on our small and perfectly flat fields...i cant see any visible overlap or wide wheelings in this???

I also dont get this "i feel better after i get off the tractor after a long day" business....i mean i dont feel any better or worse after a days powerharrowing or ploughing than i do when im drilling, if anything drilling keeps me more alert, you have more to think about

ought to get a tape and measure some of my tramlines, im guessing they will be at least 11.9 and no more than 12.1

Fair enough if you want to put semi skilled labour on a job what really needs someone who knows what they are doing, auto steer takes some of the weight off and is one less thing to worry about, but if they havent got the skills to drill without it, have they got the skill to ensure the drill is properly set, or arrange headlands right, and work tramlines in to miss obstacles with the sprayer???

Douglasmn · Apr 20, 2015

John 1594 said:
Honestly dont think id ever gain much on our small and perfectly flat fields...i cant see any visible overlap or wide wheelings in this???

View attachment 141722

I also dont get this "i feel better after i get off the tractor after a long day" business....i mean i dont feel any better or worse after a days powerharrowing or ploughing than i do when im drilling, if anything drilling keeps me more alert, you have more to think about

ought to get a tape and measure some of my tramlines, im guessing they will be at least 11.9 and no more than 12.1

Fair enough if you want to put semi skilled labour on a job what really needs someone who knows what they are doing, auto steer takes some of the weight off and is one less thing to worry about, but if they havent got the skills to drill without it, have they got the skill to ensure the drill is properly set, or arrange headlands right, and work tramlines in to miss obstacles with the sprayer???

That's some very tidy tractor work, no doubt. If you wanted to drill in bouts so missing a few passes then filling in the gaps(kinder on the soil when turning) and not have to tramline with the drill(reduced erosion/less rutted tramlines/travel better) then maybe you'd benefit from some kind of auto steer. It has other uses too. Grassland fert, big help there. Put it on the combine too so everything matches up, no "half" cuts to finish off breaks. Just depends what you want to achieve.

John 1594 · Apr 20, 2015

Douglasmn said:
That's some very tidy tractor work, no doubt. If you wanted to drill in bouts so missing a few passes then filling in the gaps(kinder on the soil when turning) and not have to tramline with the drill(reduced erosion/less rutted tramlines/travel better) then maybe you'd benefit from some kind of auto steer. It has other uses too. Grassland fert, big help there. Put it on the combine too so everything matches up, no "half" cuts to finish off breaks. Just depends what you want to achieve.

Do tend to work in lands with most operations, this is where being able to plough straight does help, as its a line you can use for cultivations and setting lands out,

have just moved up to a set of 6m rolls, so work across the field in the tramlines, missing every 6m, then work back across filling in the gaps, certainly makes the headlands less chewed up, combine is 12ft, so a multiple of the 12m tramline,

it would be handy for grassland, but usually when im spraying or spreading at equestrain units there are enough "slaves" to pace out each end of the field for me!

Douglasmn · Apr 20, 2015

I used to do the same thing for rolling with 6m rolls, I hate turning on full lock, especially on ploughed ground! One thing I've found is my definition of "straight and parallel" has now changed. Probably due to my own lack of straight line driving capabilities though! Fields here are reasonably big though(60+) so maybe that helps justify it. Personally I'd rather have an old, basic tractor with autotsteer than the latest and shiniest model without!

John 1594 · Apr 20, 2015

place im working now runs fendts, deeres and masseys, im the only one who hasnt got autosteer

having seen some of the "mishaps" due to incorrect settings being put in, signal being lost or picking up the wrong a/b line by mistake,

last week was bedfroming for bulbs, make 18 beds, leave a 3m roadway, make 18 beds etc

somehow the lad on it managed to start off leaving 3m, but halfway across the field this went down to 2m, he had done the whole field before it was noticed. So i had to powerharrow it all flat and they marked them all out again!

point i make is that even with autosteer, you still need to have a certain amount of attention to detai

Douglasmn · Apr 20, 2015

John 1594 said:
place im working now runs fendts, deeres and masseys, im the only one who hasnt got autosteer

having seen some of the "mishaps" due to incorrect settings being put in, signal being lost or picking up the wrong a/b line by mistake,

last week was bedfroming for bulbs, make 18 beds, leave a 3m roadway, make 18 beds etc

somehow the lad on it managed to start off leaving 3m, but halfway across the field this went down to 2m, he had done the whole field before it was noticed. So i had to powerharrow it all flat and they marked them all out again!

point i make is that even with autosteer, you still need to have a certain amount of attention to detai

Couldn't agree more, and it shouldn't mean having less skilled workers on the job, or it defeats the whole object. Combine autotsteer with a skilled driver and then you're on to a good thing though, do doubt about it,

John 1594 · Apr 20, 2015

even though these beds were drawn out with gps, i still cant help but try and straighten them up a bit and take all the squiggles out!!!!! Can see where ive drove wide and narrow to try and smarten them up a bit!!!

Realistic savings to be gained from auto steer

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