Farming exit scheme Published 8 February 2022

Danllan · Feb 8, 2022

Janet Hughes Defra said:
To be clear, this is not intended to push anyone to leave – it’s for those who want to leave, where a lump sum payment might help them to do so in a managed way...

Really...? I'm in Wales, but have family in England who really don't get the impression that DEFRA is pro-farming. None of them are shrinking violets or oversensitive, and they are well able to wade through your dept's correspondence etc..

One - a former accountant - reckons that you are at the start of an incremental process, just a little push here and there, and then another later, and others later still. All directed toward a definite contraction of the industry.

From what I've been shown, the whole, in fact the 'holistic' message from your dep't is that you really don't like farmers, find us rather inconvenient and will be delighted to see fewer of us. But perhaps we are all entirely mistaken...

For what it's worth, I'm not 'having a go' because you are over in England - I am sorry to write that our own lot here in Wales are on a par with you.

Edited to add: to your credit, you do come on here to get a metaphorical earful, others don't.

Still Farming · Feb 8, 2022

Bramble said:
Lots of (ex) dairy farmers are likely loads of capital losses being rolled over from the abolition of milk quota, presumably these could be set against the £100k??

Milk quotas was 30 yrs ago?

Bramble · Feb 8, 2022

Still Farming said:
Milk quotas was 30 yrs ago?

Quota wasn’t abolished until 2015, although it wasn’t really an issue for it’s last few years as the U.K. never got near its national allocation as milk production dropped.

Anyone who had bought any quota in the previous 30 years had an asset that was suddenly worth zero, a capital loss. I was under the impression these losses are carried forward indefinitely

onesiedale · Feb 8, 2022

teslacoils said:
Take dosh, let to son for £1. Daddy contract farms it with the sons "landlords first payment" of £1 and 100 percent of profit for daddy? I can see the queue of agents looking at schemes now.

why son and not daughter??

Still Farming · Feb 8, 2022

Bramble said:
Quota wasn’t abolished until 2015, although it wasn’t really an issue for it’s last few years as the U.K. never got near its national allocation as milk production dropped.

Anyone who had bought any quota in the previous 30 years had an asset that was suddenly worth zero, a capital loss. I was under the impression these losses are carried forward indefinitely

HMRC would have something to say most likely too.

neilo · Feb 8, 2022

Bramble said:
Lots of (ex) dairy farmers are likely loads of capital losses being rolled over from the abolition of milk quota, presumably these could be set against the £100k??

Only if it was bought quota I think, the same with any entitlements that have been purchased.

neilo · Feb 8, 2022

Still Farming said:
HMRC would have something to say most likely too.

No. @Bramble is correct, according to my accountant anyway.

Bury the Trash · Feb 8, 2022

roscoe erf said:
So we end up with more dyson’s

not necessarily , because henrys are way cheaper.

Janet Hughes Defra · Feb 8, 2022

Eden.Agri.AD said:
Am I right in thinking that a father could take the lump sum and a family member i.e. son/daughter could rent the land under a different business/company?
Or have I missed that bit in t&c's?

If a farmer is running their business as a sole trader, they could apply for a lump sum payment, give up their BPS entitlements and transfer their land to their son or daughter. If they are in in a partnership with their son or daughter, in some cases that partnership could apply for a lump sum, give up the partnership’s entitlements and the son/daughter could continue to farm – our guidance explains more (https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-delinked-payments-how-the-payments-will-work).

Janet Hughes Defra · Feb 8, 2022

Still Farming said:
It would be better if NATIONAL Defra Government Policy and decisions not just England.
Any idea if Devolved nations would take up or similar schemes possibly?

Sorry I can't help with devolved nations policy issues - as agriculture is a devolved policy area, it is up to the devolved administrations whether they choose to offer anything similar in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.

Still Farming · Feb 8, 2022

neilo said:
No. @Bramble is correct, according to my accountant anyway.

So losses can be carried forward for ever is it?
If you make more than X amount of consecutive years as losses you will be classed as a "hobby farmer", under their definitions and associated handling thereafter.

Janet Hughes Defra · Feb 8, 2022

onthehoof said:
@Janet Hughes Defra - if the average owner/occupier farm is worth say £2.5 million (probably more) why do you feel that farmer should need £100k lump sum to ‘help’ him/her retire

We know from our engagement with farmers, and our consultation, that there are some farmers who want to leave the sector but aren't able to because of lack of capital. Offering a lump sum payment is intended to help farmers in this situation.

Janet Hughes Defra · Feb 8, 2022

Hfd Cattle said:
OK then ......what's to stop me from giving up my land that I own and claim on and renting it to my nephew ,but I could keep on with the ground that I rent and don't claim on .......can I?

You would need to transfer out the agricultural land you had ‘at your disposal’ on 17 May 2021 even if you don’t usually use it to claim BPS. But you can keep up to 5 hectares of that land and any land you plant with trees under some woodland creation schemes.

Janet Hughes Defra · Feb 8, 2022

onthehoof said:
@Janet Hughes Defra so a new entrant taking over the farm cannot claim BPS at all ??

A new entrant can claim BPS, but they would need to buy or lease BPS entitlements from other farmers rather than re-using the ones that have been surrendered in this scheme.

Janet Hughes Defra · Feb 8, 2022

onthehoof said:
@Janet Hughes Defra will landlords allow the entitlements to be given up, we have FBT’s with written agreement that if land is relinquished, the entitlements MUST be transferred back to the landlord

Entitlements which are leased-in don’t have to be surrendered, but if they’re not, it could mean your lump sum payment would be reduced.

Janet Hughes Defra · Feb 8, 2022

___\0/___ said:
Over the past two years we have had a department inspection, a SEPA inspection, and a mapping error on the departments fault. All of which have threatened significant penalties on the single farm payments.

If we were to take this lump sum could we tell them to get lost? (appreciate this isnt a Scottish scheme at the moment but may well be soon)

Hi, this sounds like an issue you’re having on a Scottish farm? Agriculture is a devolved policy area, so Defra only sets it for England (that includes the Lump Sum Exit Scheme which as you say is for England only). In England, legal standards on the environment, animal health and welfare will continue to apply in relation to any farming activities.

onthehoof · Feb 8, 2022

Janet Hughes Defra said:
We know from our engagement with farmers, and our consultation, that there are some farmers who want to leave the sector but aren't able to because of lack of capital. Offering a lump sum payment is intended to help farmers in this situation.

How many of those were owner/occupiers though

Janet Hughes Defra · Feb 8, 2022

Danllan said:
Really...? I'm in Wales, but have family in England who really don't get the impression that DEFRA is pro-farming. None of them are shrinking violets or oversensitive, and they are well able to wade through your dept's correspondence etc..

One - a former accountant - reckons that you are at the start of an incremental process, just a little push here and there, and then another later, and others later still. All directed toward a definite contraction of the industry.

From what I've been shown, the whole, in fact the 'holistic' message from your dep't is that you really don't like farmers, find us rather inconvenient and will be delighted to see fewer of us. But perhaps we are all entirely mistaken...

For what it's worth, I'm not 'having a go' because you are over in England - I am sorry to write that our own lot here in Wales are on a par with you.

Edited to add: to your credit, you do come on here to get a metaphorical earful, others don't.

That's definitely not the intention, no; we are aiming to manage the agricultural transition in a way that works for farmers and helps businesses and the sector to prosper. We set out our plans for this in the Agricultural Transition Plan here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/agricultural-transition-plan-2021-to-2024.

neilo · Feb 8, 2022

Still Farming said:
So losses can be carried forward for ever is it?
If you make more than X amount of consecutive years as losses you will be classed as a "hobby farmer", under their definitions and associated handling thereafter.

No. Capital losses can be carried forward forever. It’s no different to if you bought a house for £200k and sold it for £150k, you’d be creating a £50k capital loss.
Quota and entitlements were treated by HMRC as capital purchases.

Trading losses are a different thing entirely.

Ramrod · Feb 8, 2022

@Janet Hughes Defra “The lump sum will be paid once the applicant has provided evidence that they have met the eligibility rules,”
Will the payment window be the same as BPS ie; 1st Dec onward?

Farming exit scheme Published 8 February 2022

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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