Anyone been using slug pellets this spring?

SilliamWhale said:

What if your not going to affect amphibians?

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Not killing predators will make for a smaller input cost on slug pellets. Killing predators will mean that the only control you have is pellets.

Astounded by your slug populations in the south since dealing in Yorks and Lincs.
That you would contemplate 100/m2 as acceptable is mind boggling.
Have seen about 1.5mill/ha but not the fabled 2mill/ha seen in 2012 yet.
In my own fields if I see a slug I stand on it and regard that as nearly a 100% kill for the hectare if not the field.
I do not agree with Osr seed stands of 25/m2 but if you have those sort of populations of slugs one wet night will wipe out your very expensive crop.
I aim for 40/m2 but am aiming at much higher than average yields.
There are a number of ways and timings to deal with the problem of slugs some of which are quite benign in their effect on other soil organisms the main difference being the length of the residual effect which can be enhanced with stickers.
I am intrigued by some comments regarding no till with cover crops and no slugs or slug damage but am very open minded and willing to try anything new.
The direct/strip till I have seen even in cover crops have all lost large areas of crop due to slugs so remain to be convinced when the alternative is cheap and painless.
The glyphosate timing angle is one that I will explore in more detail.
This is a multi million pound market and neither the sales forces or the companies are unhappy that the percentage kill is so low that multiple applications of pellets are required.
Now that Spanish slugs which are resistant to metaldehyde and can eat 20 slux/derrix pellets are endemic across the south of England there is going to have to be a new evaluation of controls. Initial results show that they are not that hard to control if you use a novel approach. Just because they do not have a huge advertising budget or shiny label does not mean different approaches should be discounted.
Unlike a lot of "cures" you can assess the results fairly quickly rather than at harvest.
Various timings and products. If you go out at stem extension in your wheat at dusk with a torch you will be able to assess the numbers present easily.
You can control them now or wait till pre-harvest and or pre-em. The problem with pre-harvest is if we have a dry summer then the slugs will go deep and so not be controllable till pre-em which with the populations you have will mean a probability of a second application post em when residual effect runs out which even with stickers can not survive very heavy rainfall.

Were certainly alot of slugs around this morning in GS32 winter wheat after only 3mm rain.Did not treat in autumn as few about! Rolled crop about 3 weeks ago.

The old way before pellets were invented was to roll your wheat after dark when the slugs were active so timing as with everything is the key to the best control.
You have to decide if the numbers left are worth controlling now or just be left to feed and breed till later in the year. They are not crop damaging at this stage but when you get large numbers grazing the ears later on it is disconcerting to say the least.

It's true that a dose of slug pellets isn't that expensive, a bit like a squirt of insecticide doesn't cost much either. But we've found that wiping out all insects in one hit results in the aphids (or whichever species was being targetted) bounce back much more quickly than the predator species (hoverfly or ladybirds or whoever) which is why specific aphicides are now used in preference.

However, I can't help thinking that a healthy balance of soil living creatures is what we should be aiming for. Slugs have a role to play in the soil ecosystem, they help break down and recycle trash as well as grazing on plants, they themselves are a food source (ie get eaten by) other creatures like ground beetles and birds. Trying to control them with a blunt instrument like pellets may work in the short term, but when conditions are right for them, the population will explode. Having a relatively steady population with a good number of predator species keeping them down would seem to be a much cheaper and more sensible way to go. I think the same applies to insect pests too, but that is another thread...

martian said:

It's true that a dose of slug pellets isn't that expensive, a bit like a squirt of insecticide doesn't cost much either. But we've found that wiping out all insects in one hit results in the aphids (or whichever species was being targetted) bounce back much more quickly than the predator species (hoverfly or ladybirds or whoever) which is why specific aphicides are now used in preference.

However, I can't help thinking that a healthy balance of soil living creatures is what we should be aiming for. Slugs have a role to play in the soil ecosystem, they help break down and recycle trash as well as grazing on plants, they themselves are a food source (ie get eaten by) other creatures like ground beetles and birds. Trying to control them with a blunt instrument like pellets may work in the short term, but when conditions are right for them, the population will explode. Having a relatively steady population with a good number of predator species keeping them down would seem to be a much cheaper and more sensible way to go. I think the same applies to insect pests too, but that is another thread...

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Ok so you are basically talking about IPM of slugs (and other pests). What do you suggest we do about slug pressure so as to achieve consistent results from arable crops.?.....

.....Because tbh the slug predators cannot do it by themselves in many circumstances.

dug said:

Ok so you are basically talking about IPM of slugs (and other pests). What do you suggest we do about slug pressure so as to achieve consistent results from arable crops.?.....

.....Because tbh the slug predators cannot do it by themselves in many circumstances.

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I don't know tbh, just that we had hardly any slugs last back end, apart from some early on which took out the broadleaf part of our cover crops on a couple of fields. Having lost our previous agronomist to an unfortunate misunderstanding with landmines, our new one took the view that we shouldn't bother applying pellets even on those fields with a high population. Admittedly those fields are now sown with spring beans which don't seem to suffer much from slugs, so we could afford to be relaxed, but there's hardly a slug to be seen.

None of our spring sown land looks to be being savaged at the minute, although I have found the odd hollowed out seed on the Mulika fields, so I might be ranting a different mollusc story next week if it fails to emerge, but you are more likely to find a beetle under a stone than a slug when crop-walking there and most of the wheat, now it's had a drink, is on the cusp of breaking through the surface (drilled a week ago).

There are at least two "foliar feeds" that have activity against slugs and at least one of them and probably both have no phyto toxic effects and no deleterious effects against other soil organisms. These come in the same category as the Nemguard given clearance against nematodes last week due to the nematicide shortage. I use and sell a similar product which is good against Flea beetles Leatherjackets and nematodes. No label recs.

I knew I should have kept my trap shut...we've just spread a few ferric pellets on badly grazed patches where s barley and s wheat a bit slow emerging and not really keeping ahead of the slugs. If we hadn't squirted Liberator on, the crop would have happily grown away from the pests, but the growth check of spray combined with the cold did for us. I think.

You should have fed the crop a FF that has activity against slugs and got two birds with the same stone.

I had to do 20ha of s barley yesterday. Some pretty bad patches, hope it comes back OK

You guys have a mega problem and need to change your approach. I do not have slugs, but plenty of worms and hedgehogs which meta is not kind to. It is very easy when you know how and at £5 - £7/ha at this stage not expensive especially when you apply with other sprays. I have clients farming 50000 ac in Lincs. Am looking for M11 corridor or Vale of York growers with Flea Beetle problems willing to try something different. Works for us on Flea Beetles Leatherjackets and nematodes. Just need to prove it to my satisfaction in a high intensity problem area.

Breakthru said:

You guys have a mega problem and need to change your approach. I do not have slugs, but plenty of worms and hedgehogs which meta is not kind to. It is very easy when you know how and at £5 - £7/ha at this stage not expensive especially when you apply with other sprays. I have clients farming 50000 ac in Lincs. Am looking for M11 corridor or Vale of York growers with Flea Beetle problems willing to try something different. Works for us on Flea Beetles Leatherjackets and nematodes. Just need to prove it to my satisfaction in a high intensity problem area.

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"worms and hedgehogs which meta is not kind to"

What a load of tosh, could you post proof please??

Breakthru said:

This is a multi million pound market and neither the sales forces or the companies are unhappy that the percentage kill is so low that multiple applications of pellets are required.
Now that Spanish slugs which are resistant to metaldehyde and can eat 20 slux/derrix pellets are endemic across the south of England there is going to have to be a new evaluation of controls. Initial results show that they are not that hard to control if you use a novel approach. Just because they do not have a huge advertising budget or shiny label does not mean different approaches should be discounted.

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Wrong again - Spanish slug is not endemic nor resistant to metaldehyde. The Spanish Slug is not proving to be a problem in UK agriculture.

As @martian suggests slugs are beneficial as well as being a pest.

One area to be cautious, if you are promoting a FF as a slug killer, you will need to register the product as a pesticide through CRD, at a cost of several millions.

I am completely open-minded to alternative approaches and anything to help reduce the population of slugs at the key times through any means possible.

And as people on here are completely aware, I am a manufacturer of slug pellets.

Could put you in touch with a man who lost two collies to small quantities of Meta.
Read the work from Norwich on Spanish Slugs. Can even consume 20 Slux pellets.
Not a problem yet but are now common across a large area of S. England.
In Norway some areas house prices have fallen due to spanish slugs meaning no gardening possible.
They can eat potato haulm and Daffodil leaves so they are going to become a problem.
Lots of products have secondary effects. Garlic + extract just given label rec for use on nematodes.
There are other similar products that have been used for this purpose for a number of years.

Breakthru said:

Lots of products have secondary effects. Garlic + extract just given label rec for use on nematodes.

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Sounds dodgy, I am trying to encourage my nematodes!!

But not PCN

In reply to the CRD point. Exactly, only multi nationals can afford it and the other problem is that patents registered are used as production recipes by the Orient. Many products have side effects including on slugs if you know what to look for. Good example, Beet and grass growers where Salt is used to increase sodium levels, using the correct form and timing has an amazing effect on slugs. Have never asked the general merchant if it has CRD approval. Probably get the short answer from the guy behind the counter. Labels make no claims and some used pre em have no direct effect only "seem" subjectively to act as a barrier. You have to try it to see if it works. Just the same with flea beetles, leatherjackets, nematodes pigeons etc, not all the same product and most of them not related to me but you will either be a convert or not. Obviously sellers of pellets will not be keen to disturb a multi million pound market even where it is caimed by some growers that they thought they had hung the slug equivalent of McD sign at the end of their fields saying " free fast food here".

Breakthru said:

In reply to the CRD point. Exactly, only multi nationals can afford it and the other problem is that patents registered are used as production recipes by the Orient. Many products have side effects including on slugs if you know what to look for. Good example, Beet and grass growers where Salt is used to increase sodium levels, using the correct form and timing has an amazing effect on slugs. Have never asked the general merchant if it has CRD approval. Probably get the short answer from the guy behind the counter. Labels make no claims and some used pre em have no direct effect only "seem" subjectively to act as a barrier. You have to try it to see if it works. Just the same with flea beetles, leatherjackets, nematodes pigeons etc, not all the same product and most of them not related to me but you will either be a convert or not. Obviously sellers of pellets will not be keen to disturb a multi million pound market even where it is caimed by some growers that they thought they had hung the slug equivalent of McD sign at the end of their fields saying " free fast food here".

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I would be very interested to understand what you are selling, it may help in the toolbox to reduce slug pressure to allow the best control possible for growers.