Red clover post tupping
- Thread starter Jerry
- Start date
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I heard that the oestrogens build up over time/years, so you might get away with it one or two years, then it starts to create more problems. Don't know if that can be right though, or women would never get pregnant after being on the pill for several years.
I think @Tim W said he grazes RC leys without issues.
- Location
- Hertfordshire
What about white clover?
You'd be a braver man than I in our house comparing the wife on the pill to ewesI heard that the oestrogens build up over time/years, so you might get away with it one or two years, then it starts to create more problems. Don't know if that can be right though, or women would never get pregnant after being on the pill for several years.
I think @Tim W said he grazes RC leys without issues.
I graze 25% RC leys all year round with no problems---all evidence says that it's a cumulative effect.
I have full mouth ewes that have been on a 25% RC ley for 6 months of the year every year of their life---still scanning at 180-200%
As I understand it when the problems occur they can be severe (I have only seen two studies)
So when the phyto-oestrogen levels 'tip the balance' the cervix closes up---if this is before tupping then the girls won't get pregnant
If it happens whilst the ewe is pregnant then you could have a flock of ewes that can't lamb /will have big problems lambing
I think that the oestrogen levels in RC vary according to growth/time of year etc but am not sure of this----
The Soil Association did a bit of work on it a year or two back ----you could try searching for 'Field labs/SA/Red Clover'---
I have full mouth ewes that have been on a 25% RC ley for 6 months of the year every year of their life---still scanning at 180-200%
As I understand it when the problems occur they can be severe (I have only seen two studies)
So when the phyto-oestrogen levels 'tip the balance' the cervix closes up---if this is before tupping then the girls won't get pregnant
If it happens whilst the ewe is pregnant then you could have a flock of ewes that can't lamb /will have big problems lambing
I think that the oestrogen levels in RC vary according to growth/time of year etc but am not sure of this----
The Soil Association did a bit of work on it a year or two back ----you could try searching for 'Field labs/SA/Red Clover'---
scrubbuster
Member
- Location
- Easter Ross
Consultant at SAC told me that they should not be on it 6 weeks pre and 6 weeks post tupping! My vet told me that once the pregnancy is established there is no problem
TelesnaAg
Member
- Location
- Portland, Victoria - Australia
Can you have them on any clover pre and post tupping as you uk folk say, is it just red clover the issue, I only heard of this clover thing a few months back! My astute program between crops may need some tweaking.
Does it affect cattle as well?
Ant...
Does it affect cattle as well?
Ant...
Global ovine
Member
- Location
- Central Otago NZ
I have discussed this topic several times on this forum.
@Tim W is correct describing some of the symptoms. Ovulation rate is the least affected by Equol (the phyto-oestrogen synthesised in the rumen from a chemical called Formanonetin present in both Subterranean and Red Clover species.) Plant breeders have reduced this naturally occurring chemical over the last 30 years.
Not to graze either side of mating is a myth which is associated with other phyto-oestrogens (such as that found in Lucerne, or alphalpha when the plant leaf is attacked by the fungus Blackspot). With equol, the damage is accumulative and related to the time the ewe is exposed post puberty. It does not have any effect on bovine fertility.
Grazing breeding ewes on high levels of Red Clover is not advisable unless it is a cultivar containing lower levels of Formanonetin.
TelesnaAg
Member
- Location
- Portland, Victoria - Australia
T
Thank you very much for that, will discuss that with seed company here when selecting clovers.
Ant....
Thank you very much for that, will discuss that with seed company here when selecting clovers.
Ant....