Changes to fox hunting in Scotland?

Dry Rot · Dec 11, 2022

I subscribe to a site for independent writers and reporters in Scotland (but free to all) called The Ferret. It seems that there are proposals to review fox hunting legislation in Scotland. This currently allows the use of a pack of hounds, hunted on foot, to flush foxes from forestry to standing guns under licence.

This is of interest to me as a countryman because in my youth I followed hounds six days a week and actually hunted a pack for a while. When I moved to Scotland in the 1960s, foxes were religiously controlled and Capercaillzie were considered a pest of forestry and shot as vermin. In the 1970s, I could look out of my window from my house in Glenlivet and see my neighbour's stacks of corn black with black game and red grouse in the snow. Hill partridges foraged around cattle wintered outside and fed on sheaves of oats. Wildlife flourished.

The Forestry Commission stopped controlling foxes ("Foxes don't eat tress"

) with detriment to local grouse moors and sheep farmers. Caper are now endangered. The grouse are in decline and the partridges have all but disappeared from the hills. Isn't it time country matters were left to country people?

Full report here: https://preview.mailerlite.com/l8j1c4n2i8/2102938111968287174/g9q5/

Oldmacdonald · Dec 11, 2022

Foxes can still be controlled but without hounds killing them.

The thought of it seems a bit barbaric to me.

Nithsdale · Dec 11, 2022

A man at night with thermal on his rifle is a far more effective way of controlling foxes than a pack of hounds ever was

Pistonbroke · Dec 11, 2022

Letting a pack of hounds loose in a forest near here, they'll be lucky to kill one. Surrounding it with guns, they kill dozens every time. Not sure which is the most " barbaric"

M-J-G · Dec 11, 2022

Do the Hunt pick up after their dogs like the public are supposed to?

Kidds · Dec 11, 2022

M-J-G said:
Do the Hunt pick up after their dogs like the public are supposed to?

As long as they don't put it in a plastic bag and hang it in a tree I can't see why anyone would care much.

Dry Rot · Dec 11, 2022

I think some posting here need to have a look at a satelite map of the highlands of Scotland. This isn't exactly suburbia. You can't use thermal in the middle of a forest. Hounds will find foxes and move them, then it's the man with a shotgun. No wounding and a quick end.

The most efficient fox control I ever saw was my mate's bobbery pack (now illegal) of a couple of lurchers and a few terriers. We walked along an old road with thick gorse bushes on either side. Then we heard the dogs barking. My mate gave me a wink. A couple of hundred yards on and there were panting dogs lying next to a very dead fox. If that's what works, I can't see anything wrong in it. I wish he and his dogs were still around.

I've another mate who came out with thousand's of £s worth of night vision. He came for a week, saw a fox most nights, but couldn't get near it and it was off like a bulet when he sounded off his electronic calls! Yes, you'll mop up a heap of young innocent foxes but the old ones killing for a family are not so stupid. I didn't bother going out with him after the first couple of nights. He never got the fox, but the dogs would have.

Ah, I see from Google maps, Beeston Castle IS suburbia!

Nithsdale · Dec 11, 2022

Funny that.

New keeper on here has taken foxes which the hunt never got. He's also taking the foxes which the previous keeper could see but never get.

Just because I'm not the Highlands doesn't mean we don't have challenging geography.

MRT · Dec 11, 2022

Dry Rot said:
The most efficient fox control I ever saw was my mate's bobbery pack (now illegal) of a couple of lurchers and a few terriers. We walked along an old road with thick gorse bushes on either side. Then we heard the dogs barking. My mate gave me a wink. A couple of hundred yards on and there were panting dogs lying next to a very dead fox. If that's what works, I can't see anything wrong in it. I wish he and his dogs were still around.

All fairly natural, red in tooth and claw etc etc yet fast and effective.

Castle Farm · Dec 11, 2022

Hunting with hounds from horseback isn't about fox control.
The 'Men' do it because they all have small pricks and the 'women' do it to get a few off while bouncing around in tight jodhpurs banging up and down on the saddle.

Yale · Dec 11, 2022

So it’s OK for a fox to squeeze a new born lamb to death but not a pack of dogs to do this more rapidly. :scratchhead:

If you’ve ever seen multiple hounds dispatch a fox it is a rapid process.

Hunting to protect stock I agree with, prat’s on horses chasing around the countryside is another thread.

Andrew_Ni · Dec 11, 2022

Nothing makes my blood boil more than hearing the horn and seeing the hunt on our ground. Here in Northern Ireland it’s still legal to hunt foxes with horse and hounds. No permission given, seem to think they’ve got the right to trespass and not worry about frightening stock or damaging fences. Heard of a neighbour had a claim made against him because a horse got caught in wire jumping a fence.if I have a fox problem, il sort it myself.

Dave6170 · Dec 11, 2022

The most effective way to control foxes are snares. They are working 24/7.
Flushing with dogs seems a bit old fashioned.
I do agree with all the interference regarding the countryside by people who may have a degree but no common sense

BrianV · Dec 11, 2022

Castle Farm said:
Hunting with hounds from horseback isn't about fox control.
The 'Men' do it because they all have small pricks and the 'women' do it to get a few off while bouncing around in tight jodhpurs banging up and down on the saddle.

Whilst to a certain degree you are right, as with many sports the followers come across as right pricks but you can be very sure the Huntsmen & their hounds take their job very seriously & if left alone would do their job with great professionalism

.

M-J-G · Dec 11, 2022

Kidds said:
As long as they don't put it in a plastic bag and hang it in a tree I can't see why anyone would care much.

Neospora is a pretty significant problem with dogs that eat dead calves, which many hunt dogs do.

Kidds · Dec 11, 2022

Dry Rot said:
Ah, I see from Google maps, Beeston Castle IS suburbia!

It is as far away from suburbia as I can get around here, it's not too bad as far as that goes.
It wasn't me suggesting thermal scopes, rifles or dogs by the way.

Kidds · Dec 11, 2022

M-J-G said:
Neospora is a pretty significant problem with dogs that eat dead calves, which many hunt dogs do.

If that is a concern then maybe it is better not to let the hunt on your land. Best of luck with that one though.

M-J-G · Dec 11, 2022

Kidds said:
If that is a concern then maybe it is better not to let the hunt on your land. Best of luck with that one though.

Stopped them years ago so it's not my concern, but thanks!

It is however a bit of a chink in the bio security armor, so worth pointing out.

Dry Rot · Dec 11, 2022

Dave6170 said:
The most effective way to control foxes are snares. They are working 24/7.
Flushing with dogs seems a bit old fashioned.
I do agree with all the interference regarding the countryside by people who may have a degree but no common sense

I tend to agree, but up here in the north snaring is hedged around with red tape. First, you need to go on a course, snares need to be made to a strict specification, the user sits an exam and needs a licence, snares have to be visited every 24 hours, every snare has to be labelled with the user's name and number, etc., etc. Every year they add a few more restrictions.

I used to do fox control. Some of the damage done to living sheep, let alone lambs, is truly horrific. They will atack living ewes in the act of delivering a lamb. Usually entering at the anus or the soft tissue behind the shoulder. A government study concluded that an adult fox would take a live healthy lamb up to 10kgs in weight. Foxes on the west of Scotland are reconned to take about 3% of the lamb crop. Just your bad luck if the 3% comes from your farm. Not to mention poultry. Experienced dogs or hounds are extremely efficient and it is a quick death with no wounding.

BrianV · Dec 11, 2022

Dry Rot said:
I tend to agree, but up here in the north snaring is hedged around with red tape. First, you need to go on a course, snares need to be made to a strict specification, the user sits an exam and needs a licence, snares have to be visited every 24 hours, every snare has to be labelled with the user's name and number, etc., etc. Every year they add a few more restrictions.

I used to do fox control. Some of the damage done to living sheep, let alone lambs, is truly horrific. They will atack living ewes in the act of delivering a lamb. Usually entering at the anus or the soft tissue behind the shoulder. A government study concluded that an adult fox would take a live healthy lamb up to 10kgs in weight. Foxes on the west of Scotland are reconned to take about 3% of the lamb crop. Just your bad luck if the 3% comes from your farm. Not to mention poultry. Experienced dogs or hounds are extremely efficient and it is a quick death with no wounding.

The thing is hounds tend to catch the older slower unhealthier foxes that are not able to catch rabbits mice etc so go for easier victims such as young lambs or lambing vulnerable ewes, shooting or snares does not distinguish between old or younger healthier foxes.

Changes to fox hunting in Scotland?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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