urea spreading date cut off fast approaching

Clive · Mar 29, 2024

Grass And Grain said:
Makes one wonder about a rival scheme to RT. It could be similar to keep AIC and Flour Millers happy, just no urea rule.

Imagine DEFRA and NFU would be on the phone pretty quickly.

the nonsense is it’s just a self declaration with RT …….. so utterly meaningless

i wager a massive amount of urea get applied week after this weekend but records will say it went on pre 31st

why pay for a self declaration? why is a post harvest declaration ok on a grain passport but a pre harvest one isn’t ?

Brisel · Mar 29, 2024

Well, this thread is a massive own goal. You're bragging about breaking the industry's attempt to "do the right thing" to avoid heavy handed legislation FFS!

It might be based on spurious data but don't tell the whole bloody world you're doing this! There's an employee of Yara who posts in here regularly who is either chuckling to himself or face palming right now. This is a PUBLIC FORUM!

@T Hectares is at least incorporating his into moist soils which does mitigate the emissions issue.

T Hectares · Mar 29, 2024

Brisel said:
Well, this thread is a massive own goal. You're bragging about breaking the industry's attempt to "do the right thing" to avoid heavy handed legislation FFS!

It might be based on spurious data but don't tell the whole bloody world you're doing this! There's an employee of Yara who posts in here regularly who is either chuckling to himself or face palming right now. This is a PUBLIC FORUM!

@T Hectares is at least incorporating his into moist soils which does mitigate the emissions issue.

And it’s still March so no sweat

There’s some great NIAB trials that only shows one situation where they found treated urea to outperform non treated which drives my thinking on its use, but that’s for members

Hindsight · Mar 29, 2024

robbie said:
What bothers me is who has the final say on whether a facts qualified justification is correct or not???

Say you have a rec for untreated urea after 31st march??? This year,I think it would be perfectly justified to prove conditions are conducive to using urea.

What happens when the gestapo comes for there annual clipboard fest. I assume they have the final say over the FACTS QA despite not being qualified to pass judgement???

Untreated Urea is not allowed after March 31 full stop, irrespective of conditions. Liquid UAN with inhibitor is. So the FACTS adviser is irrelevant. That is my understanding of the situation from a technical note received last week.

Hindsight · Mar 29, 2024

e3120 said:
The urea and ammonia 'problem' is related to air quality (traps particulates apparently), not climate change.

The government has legal commitments to do something about it, the greenies took them to court for doing nothing, so the low-hanging fruit that is urea was targeted.

Yes it is not climate change related but two environmental factors. First drift of Ammonia can lead to localised enhanced nutrient which may adversely affect natural flora adjacent. Second Ammonia combines with NOX particles thus exacerbating air pollution. It is proven to drift some considerable distance. The restrictions on Urea are as an industry probably preferable to restrictions on manure applications which is a far greater source of Ammonia. Hey ho.

Clive · Mar 29, 2024

Brisel said:
Well, this thread is a massive own goal. You're bragging about breaking the industry's attempt to "do the right thing" to avoid heavy handed legislation FFS!

It might be based on spurious data but don't tell the whole bloody world you're doing this! There's an employee of Yara who posts in here regularly who is either chuckling to himself or face palming right now. This is a PUBLIC FORUM!

@T Hectares is at least incorporating his into moist soils which does mitigate the emissions issue.

it’s no secret that red tractor assurance is a massive lie based totally on self declaration……. ie worthless / meaningless

don’t blame the farmers, blame those that have forced them into such position

JCfarmer · Mar 30, 2024

Why is the cut off the end of March and not April and made clear max temp for sowing urea is say 17 degrees.
Max temp recorded for March in UK is 25 degrees in recent times!

ollie989898 · Mar 30, 2024

Surely no one could imagine spreading urea in these extremely hot, dry conditions and risk applying something that would simply volatilise and end up on the shores of Scandinavia?

Gong Farmer · Mar 30, 2024

ollie989898 said:
Surely no one could imagine spreading urea in these extremely hot, dry conditions and risk applying something that would simply volatilise and end up on the shores of Scandinavia?

Perhaps you could assume it headed NE and merged with the S02 cloud coming this way from the Iceland volcano. But of course that's natural pollution, that's OK.

Clive · Mar 30, 2024

isn’t there a well know saying about not farming to a calendar but to farm to conditions ?

seems NFU / EA / red tractor lack that kind of FARMER knowledge here

yellow belly · Mar 30, 2024

Clive said:
the nonsense is it’s just a self declaration with RT …….. so utterly meaningless

i wager a massive amount of urea get applied week after this weekend but records will say it went on pre 31st

why pay for a self declaration? why is a post harvest declaration ok on a grain passport but a pre harvest one isn’t ?

Most industries have self declaration with a minority checked by inspection

One example the se mark system for all -products under eu rules the manufacturer does all the checking and certification in house

in food industry recording of temperature of freezers and fridges is done in house

ect ect

Nearly · Mar 30, 2024

If the difference between a good farmer and a bad one is a week, is the difference between good farming and DEFRA is 'STOP THAT TODAY'

Two Tone · Mar 30, 2024

Hindsight said:
Untreated Urea is not allowed after March 31 full stop, irrespective of conditions. Liquid UAN with inhibitor is. So the FACTS adviser is irrelevant. That is my understanding of the situation from a technical note received last week.

What would you do if you had all the Urea you needed for the year, but it wasn’t treated because you excepted to easily be able to have got it all on by the end of March?

Also that due to 6 months of wet weather and now have recently suffered the 14th met office named storm (Nelson), even though the weather is dry today and tomorrow (30th and 31st March), the crop is not at the right growth stage, the ground is waterlogged, with the next 2 weeks forecast showing rain every day meaning that whatever you do get on, will end up in the watercourses and you simply cannot afford to purchase another lot of Urea, but treated?

Now which is the most sensible thing to do?

chickens and wheat · Mar 30, 2024

Put the red tractor manual in with the urea, the ultimate inhibitor

Hindsight · Mar 30, 2024

Two Tone said:
What would you do if you had all the Urea you needed for the year, but it wasn’t treated because you excepted to easily be able to have got it all on by the end of March?

Also that due to 6 months of wet weather and now have recently suffered the 14 met office named storm (Nelson), even though the weather is dry today and tomorrow (30th and 31st March), the crop is not at the right growth stage, the ground is waterlogged, with the next 2 weeks forecast showing rain every day meaning that whatever you do get on, will end up in the watercourses and you simply cannot afford to purchase another lot of Urea, but treated?

Now which is the most sensible thing to do?

Hi. The scenario you paint is not unusual. And it would be sods law that the first year this 31st March cut off date is introduced soil and weather conditions mean any volatiisation of Urea is somewhat unlikely.

I posted a reply to the question about a FACTS adviser giving a derogation recommendation. I posted that because as I understand it a FACTS adviser cannot give a derogation for non treated Urea but can for liquid UAN, provided inhibitor is used. And it is important farmers if not aware are aware of that part of the regulation. For months now I have spotted on TFF may a time reference to these new Urea spreading dates along with 'oh we will get a derogation recommendation from a FACTS adviser'

So faced with a situation you outline with non treated Urea the thing not to do is consult your FACTS adviser, if you see what I mean.

Best wishes,

Steevo · Mar 30, 2024

Hindsight said:
Hi. The scenario you paint is not unusual. And it would be sods law that the first year this 31st March cut off date is introduced soil and weather conditions mean any volatiisation of Urea is somewhat unlikely.

I posted a reply to the question about a FACTS adviser giving a derogation recommendation. I posted that because as I understand it a FACTS adviser cannot give a derogation for non treated Urea but can for liquid UAN, provided inhibitor is used. And it is important farmers if not aware are aware of that part of the regulation. For months now I have spotted on TFF may a time reference to these new Urea spreading dates along with 'oh we will get a derogation recommendation from a FACTS adviser'

So faced with a situation you outline with non treated Urea the thing not to do is consult your FACTS adviser, if you see what I mean.

Best wishes,

But you can mix it into liquid and then consult him.

Or add some inhibitor to the liquid.

Or apply as foliar.

Two Tone · Mar 30, 2024

We are missing at least 6 very important Questions here:

1. Q: Is food consumed on which Untreated Urea is used after 31st March any LESS SAFE?
A: No. In fact the contrary could be argued.

2. Q: How can RED TRACTOR enforce a rule, not specifically used for enhancing food safety, when it has abandoned
its Greener Farms Commitment, GFC plans?

3. Q: Is it illegal to use Untreated Urea on crops after 31st March in the UK?
A: NO! There is no law making it an offence to use Untreated Urea on crops after 31st March.
There is no guidance in Defra’s FAS or date shown as to its restriction.

4. Q: If Untreated Urea used after 31st March is so bad, how is RED TRACTOR allowing importers of animal feed
Ingredients grown using Untreated Urea from much hotter countries than the UK, to be used?

5. Q: If it is so important that this rule take place, why has RT delayed its enforcement for the previous 2 years?

6. Q: Bearing in mind all the above will force some producers to have to lie about the actual date of their
Untreated Urea applications on some of this years crops, does this not further prove that all RED
Tractor has ever done, is to FORCE HONEST FARMERS INTO BECOMING LIARS?

Nearly · Mar 30, 2024

If the main air pollutants are nitrogen oxides and these tend to come from burning of fossil fuels, which tends to be within towns and cities then what's the point in banning urea use in the green bits between the towns and cities?

willyorkshire · Mar 30, 2024

Two Tone said:
We are missing at least 6 very important Questions here:

1. Q: Is food consumed on which Untreated Urea is used after 31st March any LESS SAFE?
A: No. In fact the contrary could be argued.

2. Q: How can RED TRACTOR enforce a rule, not specifically used for enhancing food safety, when it has abandoned
its Greener Farms Commitment, GFC plans?

3. Q: Is it illegal to use Untreated Urea on crops after 31st March in the UK?
A: NO! There is no law making it an offence to use Untreated Urea on crops after 31st March.
There is no guidance in Defra’s FAS or date shown as to its restriction.

4. Q: If Untreated Urea used after 31st March is so bad, how is RED TRACTOR allowing importers of animal feed
Ingredients grown using Untreated Urea from much hotter countries than the UK, to be used?

5. Q: If it is so important that this rule take place, why has RT delayed its enforcement for the previous 2 years?

6. Q: Bearing in mind all the above will force some producers to have to lie about the actual date of their
Untreated Urea applications on some of this years crops, does this not further prove that all RED
Tractor has ever done, is to FORCE HONEST FARMERS INTO BECOMING LIARS?

Can you buy solid urea with inhibitor? I ask because I don't know! Liquid only user so not really an issue for us.

Two Tone · Mar 30, 2024

You’d think that somebody at Defra would have seen the forecast advice from the Met Office (both Govt. owned) and sent out an advice NOT to use any fertiliser on saturated ground for the foreseeable future, countermanding Red Tractor’s rule on Untreated Urea.

urea spreading date cut off fast approaching

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