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Farm Business
Tenant Farming, Subsidies, BPS & Legal Issues
£129 ha for Wales!
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<blockquote data-quote="IANTO" data-source="post: 1109422" data-attributes="member: 942"><p>William.</p><p></p><p>Would you care to elaborate?</p><p></p><p>Historic payments, reflected historic production during the base years, and there was an appeal mechanism for "force majeure" which had affected production during the base years.</p><p></p><p>My opinion was that it was right in year one, but agree that over the years it has led to anomalies.</p><p></p><p>Historic Entitlements were allocated on the basis of production, and what could be fairer at the time, than "You get out what you have put in."?</p><p></p><p>I wish that WAG had provided examples of how the various options would affect various existing claimants.</p><p></p><p>I am getting questions, that I cannot give an answer to, on how each particular option would affect an individual Farm Business.</p><p></p><p>Take the case of a Dairy Farm who run a pedigree herd.</p><p></p><p>Parents have handed over control to their two sons, but still rely on the farm for their income.</p><p></p><p>The original holding was over 200 acres, but they rented another 800+ acres from year to year.</p><p></p><p>Historic SFP due to purchased Milk Quota, that was stacked on the land they owned, was over 4000 Euros a hectare.</p><p></p><p>A few years ago, they purchased another holding, and total owned acreage is over 450 acres, and the total farmed is with land, mainly by now on FBT close to 1500 acres.</p><p></p><p>They employ 6 full time staff, and their married children also work in the business.</p><p></p><p>In total there are 11 families whose livelihood depend on this one holding.</p><p></p><p>They also provide work for contractors etc.</p><p></p><p>Without SFP they would make a loss practically every year.</p><p></p><p>Profits come from a Pedigree Herd Reduction Sale every 2 or 3 years.</p><p></p><p>Unlike others on this thread, they have "put all their eggs in the farming basket" and have not diversified into say "Holiday Lets", "Contracting" or "On Farm Restaurants" etc., whether funded originally by SFP or not.</p><p></p><p>Would anyone care to produce figures of how their current SFP of approx. Euro 320K on approx. 200 Hectares of owned land will translate into the various suggested options.</p><p></p><p>I have no personal axe to grind, as all my entitlements were purchased initially from my own personal resources, and by reinvesting SFP Receipts, Trading up, and introducing more funds from personal resources, my SFP per hectare is well above the average, and in due course my SFP income will reduce drastically.</p><p></p><p>"Se la vie". It will have enabled me to do what I set out to do, and ensure that the remaining part of an estate, that has been owned by connected persons since at least 1650 remains in the family, while I live.</p><p></p><p>Payments are not intended to subsidise production, and I doubt anyone will disagree.</p><p></p><p>They are I understand meant to support "rural" communities, and my view should be looked at as say "the flip side of VAT."</p><p></p><p>VAT is a mechanism for collecting income that is devolved by HMRC to VAT registered businesses.</p><p></p><p>SFP should be looked at as a means of distributing funds to the local community, etc., and most of SFP receipts are recycled in one way or another, and provide employment, and slow down Rural Depopulation.</p><p></p><p>Does capping Payments on X Hectares, regardless of the number who derive their living, or a large part of their income, from a particular holding reflect this?</p><p></p><p>I have no answers only questions, and perhaps whatever happens, at the end of the day my income from SFP or whatever it will be called in due course will be reduced drastically, (and I accept that) I may be able to look at the bigger picture, better than most.</p><p></p><p>IANTO</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="IANTO, post: 1109422, member: 942"] William. Would you care to elaborate? Historic payments, reflected historic production during the base years, and there was an appeal mechanism for "force majeure" which had affected production during the base years. My opinion was that it was right in year one, but agree that over the years it has led to anomalies. Historic Entitlements were allocated on the basis of production, and what could be fairer at the time, than "You get out what you have put in."? I wish that WAG had provided examples of how the various options would affect various existing claimants. I am getting questions, that I cannot give an answer to, on how each particular option would affect an individual Farm Business. Take the case of a Dairy Farm who run a pedigree herd. Parents have handed over control to their two sons, but still rely on the farm for their income. The original holding was over 200 acres, but they rented another 800+ acres from year to year. Historic SFP due to purchased Milk Quota, that was stacked on the land they owned, was over 4000 Euros a hectare. A few years ago, they purchased another holding, and total owned acreage is over 450 acres, and the total farmed is with land, mainly by now on FBT close to 1500 acres. They employ 6 full time staff, and their married children also work in the business. In total there are 11 families whose livelihood depend on this one holding. They also provide work for contractors etc. Without SFP they would make a loss practically every year. Profits come from a Pedigree Herd Reduction Sale every 2 or 3 years. Unlike others on this thread, they have "put all their eggs in the farming basket" and have not diversified into say "Holiday Lets", "Contracting" or "On Farm Restaurants" etc., whether funded originally by SFP or not. Would anyone care to produce figures of how their current SFP of approx. Euro 320K on approx. 200 Hectares of owned land will translate into the various suggested options. I have no personal axe to grind, as all my entitlements were purchased initially from my own personal resources, and by reinvesting SFP Receipts, Trading up, and introducing more funds from personal resources, my SFP per hectare is well above the average, and in due course my SFP income will reduce drastically. "Se la vie". It will have enabled me to do what I set out to do, and ensure that the remaining part of an estate, that has been owned by connected persons since at least 1650 remains in the family, while I live. Payments are not intended to subsidise production, and I doubt anyone will disagree. They are I understand meant to support "rural" communities, and my view should be looked at as say "the flip side of VAT." VAT is a mechanism for collecting income that is devolved by HMRC to VAT registered businesses. SFP should be looked at as a means of distributing funds to the local community, etc., and most of SFP receipts are recycled in one way or another, and provide employment, and slow down Rural Depopulation. Does capping Payments on X Hectares, regardless of the number who derive their living, or a large part of their income, from a particular holding reflect this? I have no answers only questions, and perhaps whatever happens, at the end of the day my income from SFP or whatever it will be called in due course will be reduced drastically, (and I accept that) I may be able to look at the bigger picture, better than most. IANTO [/QUOTE]
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