How would you deal with this...?

AJR75 said:

@jemski What do you want the ultimate end outcome to be with this chap? You feel loyal to him, that's understandable but, I'm guessing that you already really know what you would like to happen, be that a decent working relationship or termination. Once you have clarity on this you can start to move forward in whichever direction is appropriate.

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sometimes moving staff as a going concern is the best way.

mate of mine had 4 staff for nearly 30yrs and managed not a single payment to any of them but they kept their jobs with the new business owner,new contracts also so they started at the bottom again.

jemski said:

I'm not going to sack him - he knows that. I agree that he really doesn't like change, and we were both promised nothing would change for at least 2 years ( as per my fathers wishes) but although his employer changed after 2 months, his job hasn't really changed. The main house has also been put up for sale very quickly, again not my choice.
I am loyal to him - when dad was diagnosed last year and we had our meeting about what would happen, one of my first questions was what would happen to this guy, as I knew it would affect him almost as much as it would affect me both emotionally and his life. He's been here all my life, he is a friend. Which makes it trickier to handle.
He says he has my back, but then doesn't actually act that way, he won't get the extra inch, let alone a mile!!!! I've called him before at 4.45 asking him to help me fix an electric fence that the sheep had bust through (because he hadn't changed the battery when is asked him to because I was away) and he said 'no I finish at 5.' So what would have been a 10 min job with 2 of us turned into a 40 min job by myself. I know it's a petty thing but it's a build up of things like that.
He likes to manage his own time so I've tried to let him, but nothing seems to get done! People ask 'what does he do all day?' And I used to protect him but now I'm actually trying to manage him I've realised actually how little gets done, and it's slowed down even more now dad is gone.

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Best not to ask him to help at 4.45pm,thats silly. Just do the job yourself, as you had to do anyway. Managing staff is all phsychology, the minute they see that you can manage without them, they buck up.

glasshouse said:

Best not to ask him to help at 4.45pm,thats silly. Just do the job yourself, as you had to do anyway. Managing staff is all phsychology, the minute they see that you can manage without them, they buck up.

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I would expect someone to work until 5pm especially if something unforeseen had cropped up. Fair enough if he had an appointment or something, which he should have told you.

Maybe it is time for him to move on, at 55 he should not find it to hard to get another job, wait 5 years and less and less likely. Given all the changes it does not even sound as though he will be that surprised.

did it cross your mind your dad could not get rid of him

we had a case like it with the foresty block we have had an old guy there cost them a lot in things the foresty co brought him stuff computer , cam , chainsaw ,etc etc
one year he was going over seas seemed a lot of young trees needed pruning ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm and there were some other strange ideas bottom line was once wifes dad died the foresty changed and all the there was not a need for this guy any more
had been rideing the gravy train for years outsiders could see it but yet the older ones thought the sun shone out of him ..

Well done on tackling the situation @jemski - it cannot have been easy. Unfortunately friendship and employment often come into conflict and it is hard to balance the two. I am sure he now sees you differently and will begin to see you as the boss. I have employed many men and some have real difficulty working for a woman, but that is their problem. You are the boss and what you say goes and you have now made this clear. Give him a few days and then go over a couple of jobs and see if his attitude has changed. Good luck!

well for what its worth here is my 2p,
things change and evolve all the time, nothing stays the same,
however it sounds like it to me, that in your first post, that your father might of told him, that thing will carry on for the first 2 years, after his death,
now see it from his side, he left school and started working for your dad, for 40 years, he was a good friend of your dad, and really enjoyed working for him, more than likely gave the best years of his working life to your father, near the end he could of been told nothing will change for a couple of years or so, and might of indicated he might be there till he retires, in the later days, your father might of thanked him as a worker and a good friend for what he has done, and in himself feeling down about the situation,
then low and behold within what seems week the whole thing changes, the is big shifts in the farm bussiness, and him being shifted from being payed by the farm, and to work on the farm, to being payed by the golf club,
everything seems to be nothing like what your late father had said or indicated, and maybe knew your dad as a man of his word,
and now the son seems to be in charge, it has all gone against what he was lead to think would happen,
big changes a foot, he gets moved on to the golf club payrole, but still works on the farm, and unsure of what is going to happen next, as in his eyes the son has gone against everything the late father said, and as he knew your father for 40 years, he maybe never went back on is word, and there for he thinks the son is not half the man his father was, and if the truth be to tell, he thinks he is about to loss everything he has built up over the years with your family in the blink of an eye, i say this because he swore at you, it is a well known fact, that anyone that resorts to swearing in a negitive way while talking/shouting at each other, is a sure sign of the fact think they have lost it all, and swearing is the only thing they have left,

staff management is a bit like husband/wife management, you have to plant the seed in there mind of what you want to do, let them then grow that seed and bring it on as their idea, then when they put the idea forward to you, you agree and say what a good idea why did i not think of that,
you then get your own way with there full backing and support, secret is to treat them as part of a team, lead them to think they are putting input in and its getting the job going,

i know you have had words today, but might be a good idea, to take him to town wwith you to look at a new machine or to get some parts, or go look at some sheep somewhere that you might think of buying,
get his input, and on way home call at the pub for a pint, be his friend talk to him, see what he is thinking,
after all you both have had the loss of a life long friend, and it would do you both good to talk about it,

he will know the farm like the back of his hand, that is only something that comes over the years of working there, and if he felt involved and wanted again, he might be better than anyone else you get to replace him,



if all of the above fails, and no improvement after a month, it would be better to part company, but dont threaten him with this till the month has past, as it is no good offering the carrot and stick at the same time

i am sorry i just thought you were the son,
but the fact that you are the daughter as you say should make no difference,

jemski said:

Yes I totally get that, and know he does feel that he was told by my father and uncle, but he knows that it was not me that changed everything, it was done by the executors and it was as much a shock to me as it was to him, as I was also told that nothing would change for 2 years and it all changed in 2 months - none of it my choice, done by the executors, my uncle and my sister and brother in law. I fought really hard to keep him on our payroll, at least for as long as we could but there just weren't the funds (due to a woman taking my dad to the cleaners but that's a whole other story).

Also, I'm a daughter, not a son. Not that it should make any difference......

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It shouldn't make any difference whatsoever these days, apart from getting @grumpy 's blood pressure up of course.

I'd advise a quiet chat with the NFU (presuming you're a member) if you do need to change 'employment status'. They have been very helpful to us over such matters in the past, in making sure that everything is done correctly.

My sympathies to you, certainly not a comfortable position to be in.

Pennine Ploughing said:

i am sorry i just thought you were the son,
but the fact that you are the daughter as you say should make no difference,

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Can you not see the avatar?

neilo said:

Can you not see the avatar?

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@Great In Grass has a nice looking woman in his avatar too, the internet is funny like that, rarely is it as it seems at first glance.

So you are a sheep????????????? bloody good on the computer then.

Can your business afford to keep him on, as it sounds like there's a lot of people now getting a piece of the pie.
I was lumbered with a chap that Dad employed for 40 yrs, which held me back a bit until he retired, as i couldn't afford to employ another person and keep him. Don't get me wrong, he was a nice enough bloke, and loyal, but wouldn't entertain more modern machinery or methods. A good case for continually training, or reviewing staff.
Maybe he's waiting to be offered a redundancy package, and you might have to discuss this with him and the trustees, after all his heart probably is'nt in it, without your Dad.
How do you see the business progressing, and your own future?

neilo said:

Can you not see the avatar?

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why are you a bloody sheep

Pennine Ploughing said:

why are you a bloody sheep

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Sorry, no I just remember the excitement when @jemski posted a picture of herself once. Not that I've saved it anywhere of course....

jemski said:

Thank you for all your advice.

He is not officially on the farm payroll anymore, but the golf courses which makes it trickier. He is due a redundancy payment from the farm as well but has agreed to wait for that until the house is sold and there is some money. However, the farm company has a half share in the golf course company so still my employee but it's complicated!!!!!!

I spoke to him this morning. He said that he feels pulled in different directions and that he doesn't stop but I said jobs just aren't getting done and I understand it's a difficult adjustment period but it's hard for me too. I need the farm to work. He said his wages had been cut and I wish I had been quick enough to say he was lucky we were able to still give him a job but my brain wasn't working quick enough!!! I said I didn't want to fall out with him but as it was it wasn't working and that I wouldn't stand for being spoken to like that. We ended up on good terms and he's now working away on a permanent mains electric fence that needs some attention. Hopefully this will have woken him up. I think he has just had it too easy for too long and doesn't actually know what hard work is anymore plus he is struggling with the loss of my dad after so many years and all the sudden change. When all the fencing is up together he will be doing more on the golf course, which I think will be a bit of a shock to the system for him. They definitely don't stop for the rain! I've worked there, I know!!!!!!

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Turn the mains electric fencer on when he's working on it! Might make you feel better.

hmmm what prompted you to offer the info on saving a picture i wonder

neilo said:

Sorry, no I just remember the excitement when @jemski posted a picture of herself once. Not that I've saved it anywhere of course....

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Banked for a rainy day

colhonk said:

So you are a sheep????????????? bloody good on the computer then.

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seeing as @neilo has moved to wales he's keeping the fact he's actually a sheep on the down low spends nearly half his SFP on hoodies and ski masks just to hide himself

exmoor dave said:

seeing as @neilo has moved to wales he's keeping the fact he's actually a sheep on the down low spends nearly half his SFP on hoodies and ski masks just to hide himself

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Since I moved to Wales, I've started banking pictures of sheep for a rainy day.