Backwards calves…the bull?

[Northeastfarmer]

I had a spell around this time last year had cows and calves in separate pens with various problems it felt like I was going round the bend at times with everything else that was going on

It drives you mad….honestly couldn’t believe it when I put my hand in and it was back to front…as I was taking the jack off the calf I looked up and saw the calf bed following it…I just thought how the hell can anything else go wrong

 

[livestock 1]

It drives you mad….honestly couldn’t believe it when I put my hand in and it was back to front…as I was taking the jack off the calf I looked up and saw the calf bed following it…I just thought how the hell can anything else go wrong

I had one that was stuck calving put calf bed out calf wouldn’t suck had no milk to mention and wouldn’t let the calf suck
I didn’t think it could have got any more wrong if it tried

 

[Optimus]

They are just in the right fettle, these will all be by the same bull, out of 20 we will of had 3 backwards and maybe just had to Jack 5 out, the rest calved themselves

I had that with a limmy bull few years ago.lost 1 got the rest out just.they were big calves.never had so many backwards before.
After that I was careful which cows to put to that bull and didn't anymore problems.

I'm getting some big calves just now.across all the breeds too.i don't know why an it it's same bulls with the same cows as last year that all spat them out

 

[M-J-G]

Having calved the first 20 cows to a new bull 3 have been the wrong way round. I cannot remember the last time we had one the wrong way round let alone 3.
2 have had to be out via ceaser as they were too large to jack out and I’ve just calved another the wrong way round tonight but the calf was dead then the calf bed followed it…just got that back in.
Can this be the bulls fault ? Im going to hang him up if it is

So not just us then!

At the start of calving we had 5 backwards calves out of 9 in 2 days, although it went past at that.
We have also had two calf beds out as well, one was a 4th calver and the other was a 2yo heifer, both calved themselves.

Cows have tested a bit low in mag and protein, not sure is this can be the cause of backwards calves, but mag and calcium can cause calf bed to prolapse.


I don't think it will be your bull

 

[M-J-G]

I had one that was stuck calving put calf bed out calf wouldn’t suck had no milk to mention and wouldn’t let the calf suck
I didn’t think it could have got any more wrong if it tried

And people have the cheek to say store cattle are too dear!
Maybe they should calve cows

 

[Optimus]

The sheep have given no bother at all this year and it’s usually them that do. The cows have sickened me

It's just the way it goes sometimes.i had 2 c sections in 12 hours last week

 

[livestock 1]

It's just the way it goes sometimes.i had 2 c sections in 12 hours last week

The year we had very cold minus temperatures I had some massive calves had 2 ceasers in 24 hours same as you I put it down to the foetuses being cold in the cows and drawing more feed off the cow

 

[t6 175]

Six cows calvedlast fortnight , 4 live calves 2 born dead both dead ones had schmallenberg , bloody disaster

 

[Sharpy]

And people have the cheek to say store cattle are too dear!
Maybe they should calve cows

We did a farm visit to a fattening /potato/arable farm when I was at college 34 years ago, the proprietors of which said that store cattle were far too expensive. They still say this, and still don't have a breeding animal on the place!

 

[Woolless]

We did a farm visit to a fattening /potato/arable farm when I was at college 34 years ago, the proprietors of which said that store cattle were far too expensive. They still say this, and still don't have a breeding animal on the place!

It really does my head in, that type of attitude! They're sitting in their nice warm tractor cab listening to the radio doing field 'work', while the suppliers of their store cattle/lambs battle away trying to get them out/keep them alive!

 

[livestock 1]

It really does my head in, that type of attitude! They're sitting in their nice warm tractor cab listening to the radio doing field 'work', while the suppliers of their store cattle/lambs battle away trying to get them out/keep them alive!

That’s what I keep saying on here when they say stores are to dear
‘you haven’t rushed out and bought any cows though’

 

[yellowbelly]

It really does my head in, that type of attitude! They're sitting in their nice warm tractor cab listening to the radio doing field 'work', while the suppliers of their store cattle/lambs battle away trying to get them out/keep them alive!

T'was always thus.
There's an old saying in the horse world...
"Fools breed horses for wise men to buy".
There's so much can go wrong between conception and weaning - it's the same whatever you're breeding, be it cattle, sheep, pigs.

Doesn't answer @Northeastfarmer 's question though.

Suggestion
There's obviously something about this bull that you like (or you wouldn't have him in the first place), so give him another go. Maybe on fewer cows?

As there appears to be a massive range of gestation length in different breeds and crosses, next time try and take note of when cows are bulled.

That way you can work out what his average is. If it's a long one, that will be probably the main reason for the big calves (that can't turn round). Then you'll know what to do.

 

[livestock 1]

@Northeastfarmer do you know how he’s bred on the limmy side?

 

[willowwarbler]

As much as I like good shaped cattle I’m getting to the point I just want to go in the shed and see a calf up and sucking. Everything that needs assistance seems to want it at bedtime as well

That was us 3 years ago , after seasons of big calves and all the problems mentioned above. Vets, ceasars, prolapses,calves that needed much looking after to get gong .
So we now have an Angus bull. This is a native Angus, after borrowing a bigger Red one for one year. Both bulls have meant practically zero intervention , with wick calves that want to live. OK , prices arent as good when sold at 9 months than for the fancy ones we used to sell, but for 'senior' farmers like us , it s been a revelation.,
Re the original question - we had a cow who had 4 backwards calves out of 12, so assumed it was more to do with dam than the bull.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

@Northeastfarmer do you know how he’s bred on the limmy side?

I don’t I’m afraid, when one of the others went wrong I needed one quick.
Got up this morning early and the calf bed was back out and it was pushing too hard to get it back in so called the vet….he gave her an epidural and stitched it in…..he said it was nothing to do with the bull….it’s just bad luck.
I said if I didn’t have bad luck I’d have no luck

 

[livestock 1]

I don’t I’m afraid, when one of the others went wrong I needed one quick.
Got up this morning early and the calf bed was back out and it was pushing too hard to get it back in so called the vet….he gave her an epidural and stitched it in…..he said it was nothing to do with the bull….it’s just bad luck.
I said if I didn’t have bad luck I’d have no luck

I was just asking because there’s only few limmy bulls that I would go back to that I know of that would be safe bets for east calving. There’s plenty good limmys that I wouldn’t fancy calving to.
Those calf beds are just anything to blame we’ve tried linking it to almost everything possible. The only proved one here is too bigger calves or the cow going down while pulling in a bad position

 

[Nenuphar]

Cross bred. Blue x limmy

That's your problem right there. One side of the bull is throwing bigger calves.

Hybrid Blue/Lim are a dark art to get right

 

[Nenuphar]

I was just asking because there’s only few limmy bulls that I would go back to that I know of that would be safe bets for east calving. There’s plenty good limmys that I wouldn’t fancy calving to.
Those calf beds are just anything to blame we’ve tried linking it to almost everything possible. The only proved one here is too bigger calves or the cow going down while pulling in a bad position

There is an endless list of easy calving Lim bulls

 

[livestock 1]

There is an endless list of easy calving Lim bulls

Is that the same as the endless list of east calving blue bulls?
I said there’s only a few limmy bulls I would go back to to use

 

[TlymarT_028]

Talk to your vet maybe? Local vet here has seen lots of backwards calves this year - suggested unsettled cattle due to weather among other things but all in all could just be the bull