Biomass boom

[Jock]

What the governments plan with these rhi payments. Am I right in thinking that the more pellets you burn the more money you get?

Yes. The more creative you can be with where you put heating to the better.
Got a neighbour who just fitted a new system system up which in addition to his house and office also goes to all the horses stables etc. just to justify a bigger boiler to burn more woodchip and get more out the RHI.

pulled out of a domestic wood pellet system as I thought the figures weren't right. the salesman was incredulous, "no-one pulls out of this deal, no-one" he says. probably gutted that his huge commission had slipped away. should have priced it better then, you greedy plonker

anyway, back to heating the house with free logs

I had pretty much the same earlier this year. Was quoted for a 75kw boiler to do farmhouse and 3 let cottages but as they are all extremely well insulated as it is I just could not see the figures stacking up the way the salesman was saying.

Told me I was crazy not to go for it. OK if you can finance it all up front yourself but on borrowed money with the additional cost of putting in radiator plumbing to replace the storage heaters in the cottages I reckon it soon made his 7 year pay back look more like 12-13 for me and that was with him having Kero at 65ppl with 2.5% inflation thereafter in his calculations. That's out by 20ppl already.

Wasn't for me but in the right situation can see how it is attractive. Been told VG energy have 40 new systems to commission in the next couple of months.

 

[Lincsman]

Unlike oil wood is renewable, I understand for every tree they take down a few more has to be planted. Its fine to say that oil is cheaper today in 2015, how will it be in 2030? God knows!

Oil is renewable, in fact its being made all the time... just takes millions (or is it thousands?) of years.

 

[Kevtherev]

Can't see the point of throwing heat at an old house or building that's not well insulated.

 

[Salopian_Will]

1.2 mw here heating chickens.

 

[ffarmwr]

Can't see the point of throwing heat at an old house or building that's not well insulated.

The point is you get paid to heat your house. Simples!

 

[sheepwise]

Some of the commercial systems that have been put in worry me .I know of several which appear to have boilers far too big for the heat actually required.Buildings are being heated purely to attract RHI payments and I know of people who are so obsessed with watching the meter go round that they have the windows open in their houses to let the heat out!
I am in the process of putting in two domestic systems, as I really think that is the best option in my case, where I don't really have any great requirement for any heat apart from the farmhouses.In the first situation the farmhouse is tenanted with an antiquated heating system off a back boiler behind a coal fire.I have been quoted £17k for a 26Kw pellet boiler with complete new radiator system.My RHI payment based on EPC done on house is just shy of £5k per year for 7 years so to me it seems like a no-brainer.My tenants are delighted as they reckon they will have a warm house for less cost than their present coal and electricity costs.I hope to have a house much easier to re-let if the need ever arises.
My own house is presently heated by an oil boiler which has cost us £100/week in oil to heat in cold winters in the past.I have decided to instal an ETA multifuel boiler in this case as I have a good supply of my own wood to keep running costs down. However, I like the versatility of being able to turn to pellet if we are too busy to keep a supply of dried wood available.Also in the summer when we hope to only need to heat the hot water then I think running on pellet will be a more economic option.This boiler is going to cost me an extra £7k but will still be paid for within 5 years from the RHI payments without taking into account any savings in fuel costs(hopefully!).
What really got me was that I also got a quote for a commercial system based on heating my own farmhouse,a nearby cottage,a fan heater in a small workshop and an outside hot tap.The EPCs done on the 2 properties stated that a 26KW and a 20KW boiler respectively were required.The quote for the commercial system was for a 130KW woodchip boiler so how much heat do you need for an occasionaly used hot tap and fan heater!!!Now the calculations done by the commercial installer looked fantastic until you start to look at them properly.For a start they base your current fuel cost not on what you are actually presently using but what 130KW would cost in oil at 65p/l.They consider oil to rise at 2.5% per year over 20years but woodchip at 1.5%.They also fail to add in annual servicing costs and increased electric demand.But the biggest thing for me was that I was basically going to have to burn more fuel to produce heat that I didn't really require because the system was way over spec.
If you have a genuine requirement for heat then I think commercial is the way to go,but for me who is only trying to heat properties economically then I think domestic is best.

 

[greengreengrass]

I was pressurised into doing a deal before rhi payment falls next year. I pulled out as I didnt like the pressure plus their figures didnt stach up. 3.5 year payback they said, working it out today, I reckon its nearer 10-11 year payback???

 

[greengreengrass]

Can someone with a 130kw boiler tell me how many tonnes of woodchip/pellets they need to reach its full rhi?

 

[caveman]

Subsidy to rape the countryside.

 

[Woolgatherer]

How come people get paid to heat their houses with wood pellets / chips in the case of biomass but if you have a wood burning stove that you fill by hand as and when, then you get nothing. Don't really understand this?

 

[Kevtherev]

We will all see on ten years how they are getting on.

 

[nick channer]

It's a no brainier
We run a 90kw central boiler that runs on solid wood fuel
All wood is free from our own hedge rows or mostly tree surgeons tipping their soft wood they can't get rid of!!
Would take 2 men about two weeks to split enough for a year.

We been running just over a yr now and last yr received just under. £9 k in rhi and saved around £5-6 k in oil on 4 houses.
And last yr was mild!
The colder the better, more u burn more u earn !!

For a £45k outlay it's prob one best money earners on the farm.

The mrs still can't get used to leavin the heatin on flat out with window or 2 open when she goes out!!

 

[EHB]

how many trees will be left by 2030.. building wood going up, fencing poles up. the trees they plant in place of those that are being felled now will never grow fast enough..

 

[chickens and wheat]

after 500 days Ive earnt 33.3% of the capital cost back in RHI.

payback time ? very hard, im using more fuel total but its cheaper (or was untill the lpg price fell)

but the benefits to the poultry are immeasurable

 

[neilo]

How come people get paid to heat their houses with wood pellets / chips in the case of biomass but if you have a wood burning stove that you fill by hand as and when, then you get nothing. Don't really understand this?

Only boilers that are MCS accredited receive the RHI payments. By and large, they are MUCH more efficient than most wood burning stoves. I have a pellet boiler and a wood burning stove, and the efficiency of the pellet boiler is much higher. Still can't beat throwing some logs in the stove and seeing a flickering flame though.
You are not just given an incentive to use biomass, but to use it efficiently.

 

[neilo]

We will all see on ten years how they are getting on.

I'm working on the theory that my system will be bought and paid for by the RHI a very long time before then, with the fuel covered and as well. If the figures don't stack up after that, I will look at alternatives. That could well be an oil boiler that I will install on the same CH system myself, if that's the best option.

What annoys me is the cost of the renewables gravy train. My pellet boiler and thermal store was installed in March 2012, before the domestic RHI scheme was up & running (although supposedly 'imminent'). It cost less than £7k for a 24kW system, of which £1500 was for 'planning, installation & commissioning'. We had installed the CH system and rewired the house, so the electric and plumbing was ready to just connect into, as was the chimney flue. I had done a fair chunk of the planning myself, including getting £1k shaved off the thermal store by getting a separate quote from the manufacturers. Apparently a mistake had been made in the quote. If I'd put an oil boiler in, it would have cost about £1500 all in, including a tank, and I would have installed it myself, as I have before.

The same pellet system installed today is about double I'm told, for no reason other than profiteering as far as I can tell. My payback from the domestic RHI is a little over 2 years. A no-brainer IMO.

 

[ste]

The same pellet system installed today is about double I'm told, for no reason other than profiteering as far as I can tell. My payback from the domestic RHI is a little over 2 years. A no-brainer IMO.

My 25kw Okofen system came in at £17700 including a full central heating system. Just had the RHI approved and its pays that cost back in 3 and a half years

 

[renewablejohn]

Oil is renewable, in fact its being made all the time... just takes millions (or is it thousands?) of years.

Oil can be renewable using many plants including wood, OSR and castor oil. (castrol gtx)

 

[greengreengrass]

Are people with boilers in, finding they are using more, less, or similar amounts of woodchip/pellets that the sales company predicted?

 

[chickens and wheat]

Can someone with a 130kw boiler tell me how many tonnes of woodchip/pellets they need to reach its full rhi?

1314 hours x 130 kw = 170820 kw
4400 kw per tonne pellets so 38 tonnes.

pellets potentially have 4800 kw per tonne but in reality there is heat loss, up the chimney from the boiler walls/pipework etc etc