Can a housed cow system be "regenerative"?

[crashbox]

RABDF Down to Earth, the regenerative livestock farming event, will be hosted at a housed cow unit for the second year in a row; cows milked 3x per day, I understand it to be "high input, high output".

Not knocking confinement systems, but can this system really be regenerative?

I believe that cows evolved to graze grass and forage, and grazing is the best way that a cow can be "regenerative".

I invite you to change my mind.

Thanks

 

[som farmer]

RABDF Down to Earth, the regenerative livestock farming event, will be hosted at a housed cow unit for the second year in a row; cows milked 3x per day, I understand it to be "high input, high output".

Not knocking confinement systems, but can this system really be regenerative?

I believe that cows evolved to graze grass and forage, and grazing is the best way that a cow can be "regenerative".

I invite you to change my mind.

Thanks

not sure you need to change your mind.

l suppose you could say you were having a 'least damage' on your fields, no cattle treading it up.

and could say you were giving the grass, the best recovery time, and utilising the grass to its optimum best. Target slurry to max benefit.

but cows were made to graze, and so they should. Its natural.

 

[crashbox]

but cows were made to graze, and so they should. Its natural.

 

[Enry]

RABDF Down to Earth, the regenerative livestock farming event, will be hosted at a housed cow unit for the second year in a row; cows milked 3x per day, I understand it to be "high input, high output".

Not knocking confinement systems, but can this system really be regenerative?

I believe that cows evolved to graze grass and forage, and grazing is the best way that a cow can be "regenerative".

I invite you to change my mind.

Thanks

I must admit I raised my eyebrows when I saw where it was being held…probably the biggest single site milk producer in the UK? Fully housed 3x milked, massive yields, no doubt doing a very very good job of running an intensive high output system…but regenerative?. I suspect RABDF are more interested in having a profitable even under whatever banner, and there will be plenty of supplier trade stands at Grosvenor, compared to holding events at lower profile, lower input farms. I suppose the term Regenerative is so loose it lends itself to all kinds of abuse

 

[som farmer]

I must admit I raised my eyebrows when I saw where it was being held…probably the biggest single site milk producer in the UK? Fully housed 3x milked, massive yields, no doubt doing a very very good job of running an intensive high output system…but regenerative?. I suspect RABDF are more interested in having a profitable even under whatever banner, and there will be plenty of supplier trade stands at Grosvenor, compared to holding events at lower profile, lower input farms. I suppose the term Regenerative is so loose it lends itself to all kinds of abuse

the great thing about regen, is there's no fecking rule book, which leaves every option open to use, but not to abuse.

regen is more or less, traditional processes, tweaked to todays methods, and the combination works, a rule book, would restrict regen farming. As it is, you have options, this year, reckon we will plough for maize, normally don't, but suspect 'problems' once maize is off.

and l would add, a 24/7 housed herd, giving huge volumes of milk, 3x milking, might be run exceedingly well, but the profits, if any, might not reflect the concept, at the last few months milk price.

rumour has it, might be a bigger jump in price, for june, fingers crossed. Meant to be stopping milking, half the cows sold and gone, up to son what he wants to do, but l will be surprised if he stops, especially if milk price goes up a couple of pence.

 

[Gulli]

RABDF Down to Earth, the regenerative livestock farming event, will be hosted at a housed cow unit for the second year in a row; cows milked 3x per day, I understand it to be "high input, high output".

Not knocking confinement systems, but can this system really be regenerative?

I believe that cows evolved to graze grass and forage, and grazing is the best way that a cow can be "regenerative".

I invite you to change my mind.

Thanks

I think it depends on a whole lot of things aside from the cows. Are they building organic matter in their soils? Are they offering actual progress to their staff, not just career advancement but socially, academically etc. in effect helping them better themselves.

I would expect probably not but I don't know the farm in question so I will happily stand corrected if this is the case.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

RABDF Down to Earth, the regenerative livestock farming event, will be hosted at a housed cow unit for the second year in a row; cows milked 3x per day, I understand it to be "high input, high output".

Not knocking confinement systems, but can this system really be regenerative?

I believe that cows evolved to graze grass and forage, and grazing is the best way that a cow can be "regenerative".

I invite you to change my mind.

Thanks

Ask their people and families

IMO far too much is made of the soil resource and far too little emphasis placed on the wellbeing and self-actualisation of the people involved.
End of the day most of these "regenerative farms" aren't really thinking what hasn't already been thunk - they're producing commodity products in the cheapest way possible and managed from the top down

 

[som farmer]

Ask their people and families

IMO far too much is made of the soil resource and far too little emphasis placed on the wellbeing and self-actualisation of the people involved.
End of the day most of these "regenerative farms" aren't really thinking what hasn't already been thunk - they're producing commodity products in the cheapest way possible and managed from the top down

while l agree with you, prices are so low, the cheapest way possible, is rather important.

as you know, we are broadly regen, and l will say, so far, we have found it a cheaper way, to get better returns, its saved us quite a large sum.

and l think we find it more comfortable to do, than running round like a blue assed fly.

I think it depends on a whole lot of things aside from the cows. Are they building organic matter in their soils? Are they offering actual progress to their staff, not just career advancement but socially, academically etc. in effect helping them better themselves.

I would expect probably not but I don't know the farm in question so I will happily stand corrected if this is the case.

soil type, could make it more sensible to house, availability of grazing grass, near the dairy, friends farming shite clay, house them, just churn up the fields otherwise. Other friends down there, refer to it as 7-5, or 5-7 land, 7 months housed, 5 grazed, or vice versus.

bought a bunch of cows down there, the farmer said, he could dig a hole, with a spade, any where on the farm, and it would fill with water. And needed a seriously hot spell, before it evaporated away, that's wet. He reckoned it would never drain out.

this is down in Cornwall, we also have a friend there, who runs a big business,, basically anything to do with liquid.

tested the water, along a line of farms, situated on a fault line, and the water there, comes from Norway, just following that rock fault line.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

There are 2 elephants in the net zero/ regen room;

Fossil fuels
Animal welfare.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

There are 2 elephants in the net zero/ regen room;

Fossil fuels
Animal welfare.

And people !

Most people are absolutely dedicated to being villain, victim, hero. Often all at once.

The drama triangle is great for those wanting to be right about why they're going nowhere, life happens to them

 

[kiwi pom]

Yes cows graze BUT in the UK they can't graze year-round in 99% of situations so you begin to add housing, concrete slurry storage and machinery. Once you've gone down that road, perhaps maximising yield is important? Build the infrastructure for 500 high yielders rather than 1000 grass rats that only use in occasionally.
Half in half out you need yard infrastructure plus field troughs, track, fences etc for the summer.
Maybe dairying is best left to climates that can graze year-round.
On the other hand, housing should in theory let you control how nutrients are put back into the soil unlike grazing and ensure stock are protected from the elements.
I've no idea which is best, not simple to work out.

 

[Will Blackburn]

I think Grosvenor are very good at being on the front foot in promoting their system.

Housed and grazing systems have a very similar carbon footprint where CH4 is calculated as being a stock gas rather than a flow gas.

Dairy processors and retailers are very reluctant to change the footprint models they use because they know this will show a very clear defining line between intensive and extensive systems.

 

[O'Reilly]

I think there is a subtle difference between using some 'regenerative' techniques and being fully regenerative.

 

[Henarar]

RABDF Down to Earth, the regenerative livestock farming event, will be hosted at a housed cow unit for the second year in a row; cows milked 3x per day, I understand it to be "high input, high output".

Not knocking confinement systems, but can this system really be regenerative?

I believe that cows evolved to graze grass and forage, and grazing is the best way that a cow can be "regenerative".

I invite you to change my mind.

Thanks

What is regenarative livestock ?

 

[More to life]

Regen is a made up concept so you can make up whatever rules you like.

 

[crashbox]

What is regenarative livestock ?

Mmmm good question.

My simple take is livestock that leave the land in better heart than when the found it (richer soil, more wildlife, better crops/grass, etc.).

Without that being significantly bolstered by external inputs.

 

[frederick]

I think it is a dangerous assumption that regenerative means similar to organic and lower levels of output.

My understanding it means improving soils. Increasing productivity of the soil and therefore output. Reducing purchased feeds (by both increasing output and increasing area farmed for a dairy unit). And reducing carbon footprint.

Due to the fact Grosvenor farms have one of the lowest carbon footprints in the UK and impressive soil organic contents they seem to be making great progress in regenerative aims.

I have no understanding of what people think you are achieving in regenerative terms by having a cow stood in a field.

I am a grazer but feel the Grosvenor and Neil baker approach to regenerative farming have far more to offer my business than the organic model.

 

[Horn&corn]

I think it is a dangerous assumption that regenerative means similar to organic and lower levels of output.

My understanding it means improving soils. Increasing productivity of the soil and therefore output. Reducing purchased feeds (by both increasing output and increasing area farmed for a dairy unit). And reducing carbon footprint.

Due to the fact Grosvenor farms have one of the lowest carbon footprints in the UK and impressive soil organic contents they seem to be making great progress in regenerative aims.

I have no understanding of what people think you are achieving in regenerative terms by having a cow stood in a field.

I am a grazer but feel the Grosvenor and Neil baker approach to regenerative farming have far more to offer my business than the organic model.

I think this is very different to the publics view of what a “regenerative” bottle of milk should look like.
with no rules the whole thing is a farce

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What is regenarative livestock ?

Now we're cutting to the quick of it.... they probably all are until a farmer gets a glimpse of it ? Then expectations take over.

What can I wring out of this

 

[frederick]

I think this is very different to the publics view of what a “regenerative” bottle of milk should look like.
with no rules the whole thing is a farce

But if that's what they want it's already on the shelf in a bottle called organic. But no the consumer wants conventional milk to be changed to organic and carbon footprint reduced with no extra premium to be paid.

That's never going to happen so creating a regenerative that will work rather than what people think they want is probably more sensible.