Collings Bros gone

[Cowabunga]

We used to estimate 1 self propelled to 10 trailed but it’s more now with the huge output @ 800hp plus. Yeh in the heyday of the early 90’s and certainly the late 80’s Willis would sell 25/30 choppers and around the same number of 3 drum moco’s per year. Stock orders were always around 50/60 units altogether.

The countryside was littered with JF, Taarup, Kidd, New Holland, Claas and other forage kit to go with their harvesters. I alone owned, at various times a JF FC80, the first Warrior 180, Kidd double chop, Kidd Clipper, Taarup 602B, Claas Jaguar 62, Vicon Doublet trailed disc mower [a disaster] and a later model that was brilliant and is still in the shed with a dead bed and now only own a Deere version of the Kuhn 3.2m mounted mower. Still have and use my own tedder and trailers. Had a contractor in with big forager and help with mowing first cut for the last ten years now.

 

[Cowabunga]

Wasnt it better then say 1980s-90s when talking about dairy farms, i had 3 within a couple of miles from me all gone? All were family run, but like alot of businesses there comes a time, when you get to a certain age, you dont want the work, risk or worry, to spend a "fortune" on new plant etc that we take years to pay off? so milking cows goes first?

Literally hundreds more dairy farms will quit in Wales alone in 2024. It will be an avalanche of leavers before next Winter.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Not only were there 35,000 dairy farmers back then but the vast majority had their own complete silage kit. I remember when local dealers had truckloads of buckrake tines and dozens of forage harvesters in stock every year. Willis Bros sold literally hundreds of your JF mowers and forage harvesters in their day.
Not only has the dairy farmer customer base declined by about 75% but the contractor with self propelled harvester has taken over the market and taken out eight, maybe ten or more potential farmer customers with each unit.

On a similar vein, in the Arable east, one Lexion has taken over the work of half a dozen smaller combines, 8070/15 ft size, each on separate farms, now all under one umbrella.

 

[Daniel]

The very first Merlo dealer in Great Britain is still a Merlo dealer today and I believe he recently had a plaque to commemorate something quite recently.
SDF made a complete hash of their UK business after the big man and Andrew Sinstadt left, by totally neglecting the rather superb and regionally good selling Same brand in a vein attempt to push the Deutz brand instead. They have, along with McCormick, shrunk to be almost irrelevant in the UK over the last two decades and, of course, the backup and product knowledge has shrunk along with sales.

In 2022, the latest publicly available figures, Deutz sold a grand total of 176 units including Same. A 1.4% market share. McCormick and Landini sold 129 between them for a 1% share. Are these sales sustainable? Many of the big brand’s individual dealers sell more units.

Merlo UK also ruined their business at least in East Anglia. They took the franchise of small independents including BW Mack (who we bought several machines from) and Collings Bros and gave it to Thurlow Nunn Standen. TNS did absolutely nothing with it and dropped them for Manitou after a couple of years leaving their customers stranded. Mack’s had moved on to Claas by then and Collings Bros took Merlo back. Now Collings Bros have gone we’re left 40 miles from the nearest Merlo Dealer and 50 from the nearest Deutz.

As I alluded to above, the way these manufacturers treat their dealers is insane.

 

[ColinV6]

same here,I know a few that say debt drives them.. certainly wouldn’t drive me

Suppose they can’t say anything else if they are well in.
Won’t be many admitting it’s the worst thing they ever did

 

[Cowabunga]

Merlo UK also ruined their business at least in East Anglia. They took the franchise of small independents including BW Mack (who we bought several machines from) and Collings Bros and gave it to Thurlow Nunn Standen. TNS did absolutely nothing with it and dropped them for Manitou after a couple of years leaving their customers stranded. Mack’s had moved on to Claas by then and Collings Bros took Merlo back. Now Collings Bros have gone we’re left 40 miles from the nearest Merlo Dealer and 50 from the nearest Deutz.

As I alluded to above, the way these manufacturers treat their dealers is insane.

It is dog eat dog, but it’s also a two way relationship. Both sides must pull their weight and respect each other, always from the dealer side with the knowledge that their franchise is not guaranteed. The mothership holds the deathray guns.

 

[Robt]

Do you know Toby Clarke? International business director at Howardson. If he’s still there. I’ve known him since he was knee high to a grasshopper but lost touch since his dad and mum passed.

Sorry Hugh, never heard of him or the company. Where are they based? Near me in Suffolk?

 

[Cowabunga]

Sorry Hugh, never heard of him or the company. Where are they based? Near me in Suffolk?

A family engineering business since 1938 | Howardson Group

Howardson Group design and manufacture machinery for the professional groundscare market under the brands: Dennis, SISIS, Syn-Pro, Lloyds and Hunter Grinders.

howardsongroup.com

 

[Robt]

A family engineering business since 1938 | Howardson Group

Howardson Group design and manufacture machinery for the professional groundscare market under the brands: Dennis, SISIS, Syn-Pro, Lloyds and Hunter Grinders.

howardsongroup.com

They are in Derbyshire. Im
Other side of the country in Suffolk. That’s about 5 hours away.

 

[Cowabunga]

They are in Derbyshire. Im
Other side of the country in Suffolk. That’s about 5 hours away.

Yes but they are a manufacturer with a good market share in the UK and indeed internationally. I know that Toby used to travel worldwide promoting their products.

Professional lawn mowers and sports grounds maintenance equipment | Dennis Mowers

Professional cylinder mowers and grounds maintenance equipment that enable ground staff, greenkeepers and gardeners to create their perfect surfaces, est 1922.

dennisuk.com

 

[Cowabunga]

Sorry Hugh, never heard of him or the company. Where are they based? Near me in Suffolk?

Toby is still at the company after 35 years or so

Staff | SISIS

Committed to deliver the highest levels of customer service, please contact anyone below for enquiries, sales and support.

sisis.com

 

[Martin Holden]

Literally hundreds more dairy farms will quit in Wales alone in 2024. It will be an avalanche of leavers before next Winter.

What will happen to the land after this dairy exodus?

 

[Cowabunga]

What will happen to the land after this dairy exodus?

In Wales they are aiming to convert 20% of every farm to trees and scrubland. That’s compulsory to get the King’s Shilling as far as we know so far. Almost all upland beef and sheep farms are likely to take it up, around50 to 60% of marginal lowland mixed farms and no more than 10% who stay with dairy.
I cannot fathom why they want this for all farms, which will make most commercial enterprises totally unviable, thus relying on any pittance from the scheme to live on. The issue with dairy farms is the scale of commitment/investment/debt in the job. The new rules will cause me, for instance, to nearly halve my nitrogen use including finding more land for some 900 tons of slurry annually. So less stock and more land plus at least doubling my slurry storage. All costs that will put me into debt that I would never repay. So my 150 cows plus followers will have to go at some point.
What will I do with the land? Well there could be a market for renting it out so that others in the same predicament but with more commitment, possibly due to younger farmers coming up, can increase their land area for both N and slurry including storage of slurry. Also I have 60 heifer calves to rear to calving if I must, but TB before selling is always a very real risk even though I’ve never has a reactor. But when to sell?

TB test id due in July for my Autumn/Winter calving herd of holsteins. That means that most will be in mid to late lactation after a hopefully clear TB test, but I will have had nearly half a million litres of milk from them by then.
Or do I calve them down and sell the British Blue calves and fresh cows. Can I handle the workload of 45 calving in the last two weeks of October, 41 November and 37 in December and sell them in tens and twenties at a mart? Never actually sold a milking cow before.
How much of a discount can I expect selling stale cows in July/August compared to fresh at the tail end of the year?
Or indeed should I commission a TB test in early April and sell them immediately as a herd in full profit and in calf once turnout occurs in April considering the likelihood of a good milk price over Summer but increasing herd dispersals as the year goes on?

 

[fieldfarmer]

In Wales they are aiming to convert 20% of every farm to trees and scrubland. That’s compulsory to get the King’s Shilling as far as we know so far. Almost all upland beef and sheep farms are likely to take it up, around50 to 60% of marginal lowland mixed farms and no more than 10% who stay with dairy.
I cannot fathom why they want this for all farms, which will make most commercial enterprises totally unviable, thus relying on any pittance from the scheme to live on. The issue with dairy farms is the scale of commitment/investment/debt in the job. The new rules will cause me, for instance, to nearly halve my nitrogen use including finding more land for some 900 tons of slurry annually. So less stock and more land plus at least doubling my slurry storage. All costs that will put me into debt that I would never repay. So my 150 cows plus followers will have to go at some point.
What will I do with the land? Well there could be a market for renting it out so that others in the same predicament but with more commitment, possibly due to younger farmers coming up, can increase their land area for both N and slurry including storage of slurry. Also I have 60 heifer calves to rear to calving if I must, but TB before selling is always a very real risk even though I’ve never has a reactor. But when to sell?

TB test id due in July for my Autumn/Winter calving herd of holsteins. That means that most will be in mid to late lactation after a hopefully clear TB test, but I will have had nearly half a million litres of milk from them by then.
Or do I calve them down and sell the British Blue calves and fresh cows. Can I handle the workload of 45 calving in the last two weeks of October, 41 November and 37 in December and sell them in tens and twenties at a mart? Never actually sold a milking cow before.
How much of a discount can I expect selling stale cows in July/August compared to fresh at the tail end of the year?
Or indeed should I commission a TB test in early April and sell them immediately as a herd in full profit and in calf once turnout occurs in April considering the likelihood of a good milk price over Summer but increasing herd dispersals as the year goes on?

Sorry, 20% of your land must be converted to trees?
FFS., crazy.
If your holding already contains 20% trees is that sufficient or is it 20% new to be planted?

 

[Cowabunga]

Sorry, 20% of your land must be converted to trees?
FFS., crazy.
If your holding already contains 20% trees is that sufficient or is it 20% new to be planted?

10% trees minimum and the rest made up of environmental plants or some similar description of wasteland as I understand the proposals so far. That’s on every farm, no matter how productive as I understand it. Yet last Sunday I travelled through mid Wales where there are tens of thousands of acres of lower hill land that produces virtually no food and on which trees could be grown while enhancing that farmer’s income rather than destroying the viability of intensive food producer’s businesses. Most of the food produced in this country comes from a small proportion of farms after all.

 

[mx110]

Not only were there 35,000 dairy farmers back then but the vast majority had their own complete silage kit. I remember when local dealers had truckloads of buckrake tines and dozens of forage harvesters in stock every year. Willis Bros sold literally hundreds of your JF mowers and forage harvesters in their day.
Not only has the dairy farmer customer base declined by about 75% but the contractor with self propelled harvester has taken over the market and taken out eight, maybe ten or more potential farmer customers with each unit.

Theres an old fella lives in my village in his ninetys now, a few year ago he'd been at local show teasing the sales rep on a stand about how many tractors he'd sold, Old fella used to work for a ford/new holland dealer back in his day based at kendal I think but cant just think of the name. He was recalling one record show day selling in the teens of tractors, mostly 3000's I think he said and I can't remember how many new holland balers.

 

[Cowabunga]

Theres an old fella lives in my village in his ninetys now, a few year ago he'd been at local show teasing the sales rep on a stand about how many tractors he'd sold, Old fella used to work for a ford/new holland dealer back in his day based at kendal I think but cant just think of the name. He was recalling one record show day selling in the teens of tractors, mostly 3000's I think he said and I can't remember how many new holland balers.

Yes it was like that. At Riverlea on most days from Spring to Autumn you would visit Riverlea Crymych and farmers would be literally queuing out of Rogers’ office to the outside of the building to order new machinery. I would think it hard for the younger farmers today to believe this. I’m fairly sure that Colin, their long standing salesman who started there as a young mechanic is just about old enough to remember it like that.

 

[Hesstondriver]

Not sure it’s gone the right way myself. We are still a sensible number herd (just over 200 cows plus replacements). No borrowings just a few HP deals, not on the hamster wheel. Can walk away tomorrow in a very nice position if we choose to (it’s tempting half the time lol)

Some of the debt levels on these large scale everything fancy farms is astronomical, I couldn’t sleep at night. Be lucky to walk away with enough for a house each if it all goes wrong. Heard folk bragging almost that they’ve 3M borrowed.

So refreshing to hear . Your back up plans is walk away, buy a house, get a job and move on .
Telephone numbers worth of debt in farming are unsustainable

 

[ColinV6]

So refreshing to hear . Your back up plans is walk away, buy a house, get a job and move on .
Telephone numbers worth of debt in farming are unsustainable

Absolutely. It’s nice to have an exit strategy that isn’t walking away empty handed for all the years work.

We had a small loan when we did the bridge a few years back and it was like very hard work to get it. Of course the main thing is the bank wanted the deeds, a better rate etc if we did. No chance. Once you had them over it’s very hard to get them back. They almost chuck more and more at you to keep them.

 

[Blue.]

Absolutely. It’s nice to have an exit strategy that isn’t walking away empty handed for all the years work.

We had a small loan when we did the bridge a few years back and it was like very hard work to get it. Of course the main thing is the bank wanted the deeds, a better rate etc if we did. No chance. Once you had them over it’s very hard to get them back. They almost chuck more and more at you to keep them.

How did you acquire the land without debt?