Dog attack at tupping.

[tepapa]

Unfortunately the small flock was attacked yesterday with only one mauled by the neck but still alive.
Tup been In from 1st week in October so six weeks max. How safe were those embryos at 4-5 weeks old?
Secondly, how do you get compensated for loss of potential lambs and extended lambing if the ewes now absorb and recycle and lamb two months after planned date?

 

[Tim W]

Unfortunately the small flock was attacked yesterday with only one mauled by the neck but still alive.
Tup been In from 1st week in October so six weeks max. How safe were those embryos at 4-5 weeks old?
Secondly, how do you get compensated for loss of potential lambs and extended lambing if the ewes now absorb and recycle and lamb two months after planned date?

I have managed to get compensation for this type of thing, i think success is down to documentation ----
Log a crime report with the police now
Have records of previous years performance to compare to this years
Have vet documented opinions
Keep a track of reasonable costs (your time inc ---i charge £20/hour + costs)
Make sure the dog owner realises the probable problems involved & potential costs
Keep a good record of all correspondence with the dog owner
Good luck

 

[primmiemoo]

What an awful thing. I hope the injured one recovers.

Are you an NSA member? They have an arrangement for 30 minutes of free legal advice to members.

There's also advice here:

Sheep worried or attacked - what to do

It is a CRIME for your sheep to be worried or attacked by a dog

www.sheepwatch.co.uk

 

[neilo]

Unfortunately the small flock was attacked yesterday with only one mauled by the neck but still alive.
Tup been In from 1st week in October so six weeks max. How safe were those embryos at 4-5 weeks old?
Secondly, how do you get compensated for loss of potential lambs and extended lambing if the ewes now absorb and recycle and lamb two months after planned date?

The embryos should be safely implanted after about 3weeks iirc, but that doesn’t mean they won’t still reabsorb, depending on the stress.

 

[AftonShepherd]

Unfortunately the small flock was attacked yesterday with only one mauled by the neck but still alive.
Tup been In from 1st week in October so six weeks max. How safe were those embryos at 4-5 weeks old?
Secondly, how do you get compensated for loss of potential lambs and extended lambing if the ewes now absorb and recycle and lamb two months after planned date?

I lost 1 tup and 7 ewes and had a further 6 ewes minorly injured over 2 different nights about the end of the first cycle last year (out of 340).

Had 4% empty compared to an average of 2.5% and there were 7 lambed about 5 weeks late which I expect slipped and reconcieved. (Left tups out longer deliberately)

Didn't try and put a value on losses as we never caught the dogs or owners so didn't seem to be much point.

 

[neilo]

Not a dog, but had an Air Ambulance helicopter land in the middle of a 10ac field containing 140 ewes that were 10 days into tupping. They were literally climbing the hedges trying to get away from it.
I left the rams in an extra cycle (3 cycles instead of 2) to cover bases, but didn’t have a single lamb from that group in the first 10 days, and 50 of them never did get in lamb. If it had been anyone but the Air Ambulance I would have had a claim in for many thousands, but considered it my (large) donation to a good cause instead.

I’d imagine a prolonged attack by a pack of dogs at the same stage of tupping would have a similar effect, but should be a better outcome if they are settled in lamb. It’s never going to be a positive experience though.

 

[steveR]

Not a dog, but had an Air Ambulance helicopter land in the middle of a 10ac field containing 140 ewes that were 10 days into tupping. They were literally climbing the hedges trying to get away from it.
I left the rams in an extra cycle (3 cycles instead of 2) to cover bases, but didn’t have a single lamb from that group in the first 10 days, and 50 of them never did get in lamb. If it had been anyone but the Air Ambulance I would have had a claim in for many thousands, but considered it my (large) donation to a good cause instead.

I’d imagine a prolonged attack by a pack of dogs at the same stage of tupping would have a similar effect, but should be a better outcome if they are settled in lamb. It’s never going to be a positive experience though.

I hope you pointed out the consequence of their actions. They probably had no idea.....

 

[Dkb]

I had a trailer come off the jeep with ewes around the same stage as yours. None aborted or ever had a problem after. Although that would be just one very sudden bang when the trailer hit the ditch. And not a drawn out process like a dog attack. Put the ram back in for a couple of weeks raddled and see do many come cycling you could be lucky.

 

[neilo]

I hope you pointed out the consequence of their actions. They probably had no idea.....

To be fair, there was a young lad that had been knocked off his bike by a bus on the main road next to the field. The nearest flat field to the scene was my field of stubble turnips, which they tried to avoid as they could see it was a crop (they wouldn't have known, but there was no easy access onto the road either), so the grass field with the sheep in it was the next nearest flat field suitable to land in.

Thankfully they weren't needed in the end, but I would have been glad of their attendance if it had been me under the bus.

 

[som farmer]

sometimes you just have to accept it, that would be prime example. Few yrs ago, fire engine wouldn't turn his siren off, with dairy herd on road, coming in for milking, spooked the cows, they stampeded, killed the farmers dad, coming on behind them. Driver convicted of manslaughter, correctly so.

 

[TristanP]

I have managed to get compensation for this type of thing, i think success is down to documentation ----
Log a crime report with the police now
Have records of previous years performance to compare to this years
Have vet documented opinions
Keep a track of reasonable costs (your time inc ---i charge £20/hour + costs)
Make sure the dog owner realises the probable problems involved & potential costs
Keep a good record of all correspondence with the dog owner
Good luck

^^ This.

I had the same a few years ago from a neighbour with a small holding who started a boarding kennels and walked dogs around their field/let them play in the river - dogs got out on my side and into field of ewes in with the tup. Luckily I was nearby and caught them or I'm sure they'd never have said.

I got photos of dog collar and tag which had "I'm staying at xyz kennel" on, and of the damage to the ewe. Made a report to the Police. Marked all the ewes in that group and scanned them separately. Can't remember exactly but about 10-15% empty in marked group compared to the rest of the flock which was about 2%. If they're all running as one flock, then you could always compare to a past few year avg.

Chap wasn't interested at all in even a sorry, ended up going to court. I took all the above which TimW has suggested and also included any documents which evidence what you're claiming for - so for my time I charged whatever the NAAC said shepherding was that year, and used the NAAC document to evidence it. Market reports/sale invoices for a avg lamb value etc. The report from the vet the judge also said was invaluable to him as not knowing about sheep it explained and evidenced the potential damage that could be done - cost £150 for him to write, but then you can claim that back too...

PM if you like and if I can find them you're welcome to have all the letters that were sent or the whole evidence pack which you could use as templates.

 

[tepapa]

I've not spoken to the dog owner yet. The land owner where the sheep are has and the dog owner if very upset and concerned for the injured ewe.
I'd rather be prepared before I speak to him hence the thread.
Hopefully the ewe should recover if we can keep infection at bay and she keeps eating. My main concern is the lamb crop for next year. No body sees the lost embryos, barren ewes or extended lambing. That's a cost the shepherd has to bare.

 

[Tim W]

@tepapa ... what was the outcome?
My return to this thread is prompted by finding 2 ewes ripped up this morning (& 2 next door apparently)

 

[tepapa]

@tepapa ... what was the outcome?
My return to this thread is prompted by finding 2 ewes ripped up this morning (& 2 next door apparently)

Well good timing but an unfortunate event for you.

Scanned last night. All in lamb still and only one late and by late, she'll be 3+ months late so I'd be certain she lost at the time of the attack. I re raddled the ram two weeks after and she was the only one he properly covered since and she's scanned as a late.
The ewe that was mauled is still carrying twins which I'm very surprised about by she's definitely been knocked back by the event, she'll be 1.5 condition score below average (3-3.5) and you can see it on her.

Assuming the late lamber has twins they'll scan @150% which is low for the flock. They would normally scan around 168%+. They used to scan higher but I'm keeping more Welsh blood in the flock so this may have some affect and I also tupped a month earlier to lamb start of March not April so that may have some affect.

 

[Al R]

Well good timing but an unfortunate event for you.

Scanned last night. All in lamb still and only one late and by late, she'll be 3+ months late so I'd be certain she lost at the time of the attack. I re raddled the ram two weeks after and she was the only one he properly covered since and she's scanned as a late.
The ewe that was mauled is still carrying twins which I'm very surprised about by she's definitely been knocked back by the event, she'll be 1.5 condition score below average (3-3.5) and you can see it on her.

Assuming the late lamber has twins they'll scan @150% which is low for the flock. They would normally scan around 168%+. They used to scan higher but I'm keeping more Welsh blood in the flock so this may have some affect and I also tupped a month earlier to lamb start of March not April so that may have some affect.

Bringing Welsh earlier will reduce the scanning, my Welsh will scan 175-185% if lambing late March early april, 165-175% this year as brought them back 2 weeks

 

[Tim W]

Another attack today ---maybe we need a sheep worrying tracking thread?
Might be a way of collecting evidence of the need for some harsher action ?

 

[steveR]

Another attack today ---maybe we need a sheep worrying tracking thread?
Might be a way of collecting evidence of the need for some harsher action ?

Do you report the attacks to the Police? What do they say/recommend?

 

[som farmer]

we have been having trouble with a vegan lady, nasty. But, all incidents should be reported to the police, we all realise they will do sweet f all, what might not be quite so obvious, is all those 'reports' add up, and eventually they are pretty well forced to act, simply because those logs start to make their figures look bad. Basically the more reports logged, not acted apon, the worse it is, for them. This is how we were told, by a officer, the system works, it's the tick box syndrome, to many unticked boxes = questions from above, sounds about right.

 

[Tim W]

Do you report the attacks to the Police? What do they say/recommend?

all attacks logged with police
this weeks attack is 6 miles from last weeks
not much they can do really , show up at popular dog walking spots occasionally?

But the GP ignorance is astounding ---i checked these sheep today on top of the downs at Whitesheet Hill , noticed this one with an obvious bite ---held the mob (80 ewes) with my dog and caught her with a crook, treated with AB and put 2 stitches in a flap of skin that was hanging off her. As i did this a lady came through the gate 50 metres from me with her dog running off the lead (despite notice on gate saying Dogs on lead) ---she was very defensive when i asked her to put it on a lead and to keep it away from me and the ewe, i was still treating the ewe at the time
It was only after she got the undiplomatic warning and i started wielding my crook at her dog that she got the message

99% of dog owners are great but it only takes 1 to cause massive damage ---same as everything in life

 

[pgk]

we have been having trouble with a vegan lady, nasty. But, all incidents should be reported to the police, we all realise they will do sweet f all, what might not be quite so obvious, is all those 'reports' add up, and eventually they are pretty well forced to act, simply because those logs start to make their figures look bad. Basically the more reports logged, not acted apon, the worse it is, for them. This is how we were told, by a officer, the system works, it's the tick box syndrome, to many unticked boxes = questions from above, sounds about right.

Was the vegan lady worrying your sheep