Edinburgh Airport

[Lowland1]

Aviation is incredibly important for lots of poor countries. It's how tourists who are essential for their economies get there. Kenya is looking at 2 million tourists arriving mainly by plane this year and looking at 4 million hopefully next year.

 

[kiwi pom]

You need to eat 3 times a day, you don't need to go on a plane. Yes, some people have business interests and people have family abroad, etc, but 90% of plane trips are totally unnecessary. I've lived 21 years and never been on a plane. I've been to the continent, but on a bus.

The aviation industry is for the most part a pure luxury and are buying up farms so they can bullsht their way to expansion, sticking their head in the sand pretending theyre not burning a hundred tons of fuel every time they leave the ground (That could run some tractors for their whole lifespan). Let's not forget it's also the most perfect disease spreading system humanity has come up with.

Why did you go to the continent on a bus, that was a luxury too, I thought we couldn't have them.
Aviation is about a lot more than 'pure luxury' tourism is only part of it. It should be striving to be more efficient than it is though as should Ag and everything else, the way they are going about some of it now with this ridiculous offsetting shite is just wrong, that doesn't mean the industry shouldn't exist.
As I said above we need better leaders and a better plan.

 

[livestock 1]

I'm not in a muddle at all I'm saying if you're going to attack aviation and say it isn't important (it is) then you should be attacking everything that isn't vital to survival but it's always air travel that gets dragged up on here.

Just like eco warriors drag up cows, it's more complicated than that and ALL industries should try and be as efficient and planet friendly as possible.

Aviation isn't trying to bully agriculture, nor am I trying to compare aviation and agriculture.

What regularly happens in these discussions is that what agriculture produces is conveniently forgotten. If you carry the calculations forward that food or raw materials for food as you might say would still need to be produced from elsewhere.
Therefore you would need to recalculate what part of aviation was for tourism which appears to be most of it

 

[kiwi pom]

When I was told one of the airlines was heading for carbon neutral I was intrigued as to how they could achieve it
When I found out how they were achieving it I thought it was one of the biggest fiddles going

Agreed it's ridiculous they're trying to fiddle their way out of it and that needs to stop. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have aviation.

 

[livestock 1]

I'm not in a muddle at all I'm saying if you're going to attack aviation and say it isn't important (it is) then you should be attacking everything that isn't vital to survival but it's always air travel that gets dragged up on here.

Just like eco warriors drag up cows, it's more complicated than that and ALL industries should try and be as efficient and planet friendly as possible.

Aviation isn't trying to bully agriculture, nor am I trying to compare aviation and agriculture.

When you jump on a plane they quote ‘we have you carbon taken care of’ which really means they have bought some woodland somewhere which already existed to codge up some figures to keep their shareholders and customers quiet

 

[kiwi pom]

What regularly happens in these discussions is that what agriculture produces is conveniently forgotten. If you carry the calculations forward that food or raw materials for food as you might say would still need to be produced from elsewhere.
Therefore you would need to recalculate what part of aviation was for tourism which appears to be most of it

I'm not interested in comparing them we have agriculture, aviation and all kinds of things that have an impact on the planet, we should do all of them and carry on living as efficiently and sustainably as possible.
Eco warriors need to stop singling out cows, TFF needs to stop picking on aviation.

When you jump on a plane they quote ‘we have you carbon taken care of’ which really means they have bought some woodland somewhere which already existed to codge up some figures to keep their shareholders and customers quiet

Yes that is ridiculous as I said up thread.

 

[livestock 1]

Agreed it's ridiculous they're trying to fiddle their way out of it and that needs to stop. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have aviation.

No I’m not suggesting we should stop it or restrict it but maybe they should take some responsibility for what they actually do on the main part. Which is carting people around for recreational purposes while blowing off tons of cerosine
There isn’t much sense in farmers having to make adjustments for nothing in return while producing food while they gain commercially from those adjustments
If they want to take responsibility and pay for it that’s fine

 

[livestock 1]

I'm not interested in comparing them we have agriculture, aviation and all kinds of things that have an impact on the planet, we should do all of them and carry on living as efficiently and sustainably as possible.
Eco warriors need to stop singling out cows, TFF needs to stop picking on aviation.

Yes that is ridiculous as I said up thread.

I think your first few words is the problem

 

[DaveGrohl]

Aviation is incredibly important for lots of poor countries. It's how tourists who are essential for their economies get there. Kenya is looking at 2 million tourists arriving mainly by plane this year and looking at 4 million hopefully next year.

And therein lies the big quandry. We either regress back to the caves or we don’t. If we don’t want to then let’s at least be honest.

Net Zero can never exist, it just isn’t possible. We might have much less impact on the planet at some point in the distant future, but for a few decades at least all we’re doing is trying to fool everyone and look busy pretending we’re doing something.

Adaptation is the only thing that matters. We ain’t stopping anything. Let’s just be honest.

 

[Jam Tomorrow]

We need aviation to thrive so that our food can be imported to replace UK production that has reverted to Greening to offset aviation carbon emissions. Simples .

 

[yin ewe]

We need aviation to thrive so that our food can be imported to replace UK production that has reverted to Greening to offset aviation carbon emissions. Simples .

That basically sums up the whole environmental thing.

 

[Lowland1]

We need aviation to thrive so that our food can be imported to replace UK production that has reverted to Greening to offset aviation carbon emissions. Simples .

Not really most food comes in by sea. Most supermarkets have a policy of reducing produce imported by air. We were having a meeting with a customer yesterday. They are happier with ten day old broccoli from Egypt by sea than two day old Kenyan by air even though Kenyan vegetables are getting a ride on tourist planes that are coming anyway. How many Avocadoes, or Blueberries is the UK producing at present? It most certainly isn’t simples. UK produce always gets prefence against imports the Supermarkets and the majority of the population don’t believe in seasonality or shortages. It’s modern life.

 

[killie_cowboy]

Why did you go to the continent on a bus, that was a luxury too, I thought we couldn't have them.
Aviation is about a lot more than 'pure luxury' tourism is only part of it. It should be striving to be more efficient than it is though as should Ag and everything else, the way they are going about some of it now with this ridiculous offsetting shite is just wrong, that doesn't mean the industry shouldn't exist.
As I said above we need better leaders and a better plan.

I went to France and Belgium on a tour of the battlefields tour with the school to remember those who had given their tommorows for our today. Also saw a good bit of French agriculture on the way and went by the flexothanes factory lol.

The vast majority of passengers are just holiday makers you'll find. I'm not saying the aviation industry should be wiped out, but it should be cut back before they come knocking on anybody else's door.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Not really most food comes in by sea. Most supermarkets have a policy of reducing produce imported by air. We were having a meeting with a customer yesterday. They are happier with ten day old broccoli from Egypt by sea than two day old Kenyan by air even though Kenyan vegetables are getting a ride on tourist planes that are coming anyway. How many Avocadoes, or Blueberries is the UK producing at present? It most certainly isn’t simples. UK produce always gets prefence against imports the Supermarkets and the majority of the population don’t believe in seasonality or shortages. It’s modern life.

This is all true, but why the cant about it all then?

We all know that oil and gas are here to stay. Why window dress something as a tithe to something else?

 

[Lowland1]

This is all true, but why the cant about it all then?

We all know that oil and gas are here to stay. Why window dress something as a tithe to something else?

Because it is what people want to hear. Tourism contributes £234 billion to the UK economy . Agriculture £11 billion. How do the majority of tourists get to the UK? It’s really simple to work out what’s more important to the UK government.

 

[Lowland1]

United Kingdom - Distribution of GDP across economic sectors 2022 | Statista

In 2022, agriculture contributed around 0.76 percent to the United Kingdom’s GDP, 16.68 percent came from the manufacturing industry, and 72.17 percent from the services sector. The UK is not a farmer’s market The vast majority of the UK’s GDP is generated by the services sector, and tourism...

www.statista.com

 

[SilliamWhale]

Because it is what people want to hear. Tourism contributes £234 billion to the UK economy . Agriculture £11 billion. How do the majority of tourists get to the UK? It’s really simple to work out what’s more important to the UK government.

I realise that but I thought we were in a "climate crisis".... in fact isn't that policies are being developed for? Theres no point having a crisis if we ignoring leisure!

 

[Lowland1]

I realise that but I thought we were in a "climate crisis".... in fact isn't that policies are being developed for? Theres no point having a crisis if we ignoring leisure!

What can i say? No one wants to hear the reality which is basically we can’t afford a climate crisis if it means you actually have to take action yourself. Forget buying an electric car and start walking isn’t going to win many votes.

 

[Archie]

We need aviation to thrive so that our food can be imported to replace UK production that has reverted to Greening to offset aviation carbon emissions. Simples .

Totally agree and yet UK Ag couldn’t think of one particular reason to protest about & join with our European cousins recently.

There’s the reason right there. Whole Greenwashing farce of net zero & carbon offsets & how Agriculture here in the UK is treated as a result. One sided calculation equations & all that.

 

[Jam Tomorrow]

Not really most food comes in by sea. Most supermarkets have a policy of reducing produce imported by air. We were having a meeting with a customer yesterday. They are happier with ten day old broccoli from Egypt by sea than two day old Kenyan by air even though Kenyan vegetables are getting a ride on tourist planes that are coming anyway. How many Avocadoes, or Blueberries is the UK producing at present? It most certainly isn’t simples. UK produce always gets prefence against imports the Supermarkets and the majority of the population don’t believe in seasonality or shortages. It’s modern life.

We know the uk can’t produce all the food it requires, we all enjoy a varied diet throughout the year and are healthier for it .
The issue isn’t the food .
The issue is the bulls**t applied to the reasoning behind the destruction of UK ag and betrayal of its farmers .
Don’t pee on us and tell us that it’s raining .