Evolution Farming

[Grassman247]

Must be a fairly radical contingency plan if all staff left

Could get the staff from ABP to help them out there used to dealing with half dead animals

 

[Keep On]

Could get the staff from ABP to help them out there used to dealing with half dead animals

Petty, bitter defamation.

 

[Spud]

Nothing like putting the boot in. If this is what trial by social media looks like in real life I’m very glad I’m not on it.

You realise that TFF is a form of social media.......don't you?

 

[lazy farmer]

You realise that TFF is a form of social media.......don't you?

Agreed. But it’s my only footprint.

 

[P.Greenall]

Are they all coming from the same ep address? Or all different domains?

Any of them

How do you fill the gap in the cv?
'I was in prison'

Where is the video?

 

[Nearly]

Twitter.
Link several pages back.

 

[Devil's advocate]

Low prices have been suggested as an explanation.

Why have Arla built up a relationship with Tom Rawson. They want a man that will mass produce cheap milk with foreign labour & reduce every possible cost. That way they won't need these annoying small family farms.

Its back fired on Arla but Arla will get out of this faster than a rat up a drain pipe.

 

[O'Reilly]

Low prices have been suggested as an explanation.

Why have Arla built up a relationship with Tom Rawson. They want a man that will mass produce cheap milk with foreign labour & reduce every possible cost. That way they won't need these annoying small family farms.

Its back fired on Arla but Arla will get out of this faster than a rat up a drain pipe.

Tom Rawson/evolution farming are co-owners of ARLA, it is a cooperative. The aim of ARLA is to maximise returns on milk sold, for the benefit of the co owners, nothing to do with wanting cheap milk. It does however raise a whole load of other complications in this case. If arla, red tractor or anyone else pulls the rug too quick, there will be a huge welfare problem. This, in turn raises questions about the sensibility of large scale farming, but it is too late in the day for this discussion. Good night.

 

[Skintagain]

Tom Rawson/evolution farming are co-owners of ARLA, it is a cooperative. The aim of ARLA is to maximise returns on milk sold, for the benefit of the co owners, nothing to do with wanting cheap milk. It does however raise a whole load of other complications in this case. If arla, red tractor or anyone else pulls the rug too quick, there will be a huge welfare problem. This, in turn raises questions about the sensibility of large scale farming, but it is too late in the day for this discussion. Good night.

One word

messy

 

[crashbox]

Why have Arla built up a relationship with Tom Rawson.

What is the relationship between the milk buyer and T.R., other than being an Arla member?

They want a man that will mass produce cheap milk with foreign labour & reduce every possible cost. That way they won't need these annoying small family farms.

Most UK processors probably like some scale - it provides efficiency. But conversely, often dislike spring calving bias, and dock the milk cheque accordingly.

Do you have any stats on how many Arla co-op members are/are not "small family farms"?

Or, how much foreign labour Evolution farming have as a proportion of their workforce?

Just playing devil's advocate

 

[Grass And Grain]

I don't want to comment on the subject of the OP or whatever business was earlier being discussed but the excuse of low milk prices/low profitability has been trotted out here many many times before. Those farms who perpetually do not put a half decent amount of straw/bedding under their stock when housed and it happens every winter, regardless of what the weather is like or the cost of straw. Why should animal welfare be the first thing you sacrifice? That's surely 180 degrees out of the ideology that most stock farmers would hold dear? I'd sooner not keep the things that see them in perpetual ill-thrift.

That was me who mentioned milk price! And I then got it in the neck.

It isn't an excuse. And I'm sure 95% of farms do there best. Plenty of feed, bedding, staff, etc to always keep livestock 100% attended to.

Not in relation to this OP/thread, but stand by my assertion that milk price has an effect on welfare.

This is a broad brush statement coming now due to genetics, system, etc, but...

If long term milk prices mean farmers have had to push cows and they only last 2.5 lactations, then something is wrong and it needs industry to come together to sort it out. 2.5 lactations and then culled, says to me those cows are under massive metabolic stress. They may be well bedded, well fed and good vet care, but their welfare has been compromised. And it's to do with milk price.

Here's what should happen (suggestion)...

Processors agree to pay a consistent and stable price which means they get year round supply and the price means farmers can adjust their systems to work towards 7-8+ lactations.

Stuff a processor making a quick buck by selling on world market, decent price for a year, then poor price for next year, farmer having to push cows to the limit to keep jis head above water.

^^^ That's no good. Cows aren't a piece of machinery.

This isn't the farmers' faults. It's the industry. They need to work out a way of paying say 50-60p consistently, and work with the farmers to ensure that translates into more lactations and less metabolic stress.

I know there's people already doing this with say British Friesian, spring calving, on grass, very few concentrates, and turning a profit. But there's plenty more who've been forced to push cows to the limit.

As said, very broad brush statements made above, but the milk buyers need to understand what I've just written, and then act on it. It'll be the farmers who get the bad publicity for culling young cows due to general herd metabolic stress. And don't anyone come back and say it's fine to be culling cows after 2-3 lactations. It's not. Something is seriously wrong with the industry if that's happening. It's not the farmers fault. It's the milk purchasing/pricing system, and it should be changed. Cow welfare must come first.

Rant over.

 

[frederick]

They need to work out a way of paying say 50-60p

And put a quota system in place as well which will be required to stop milk production going through the roof.

 

[Grass And Grain]

That was me who mentioned milk price! And I then got it in the neck.

It isn't an excuse. And I'm sure 95% of farms do there best. Plenty of feed, bedding, staff, etc to always keep livestock 100% attended to.

Not in relation to this OP/thread, but stand by my assertion that milk price has an effect on welfare.

This is a broad brush statement coming now due to genetics, system, etc, but...

If long term milk prices mean farmers have had to push cows and they only last 2.5 lactations, then something is wrong and it needs industry to come together to sort it out. 2.5 lactations and then culled, says to me those cows are under massive metabolic stress. They may be well bedded, well fed and good vet care, but their welfare has been compromised. And it's to do with milk price.

Here's what should happen (suggestion)...

Processors agree to pay a consistent and stable price which means they get year round supply and the price means farmers can adjust their systems to work towards 7-8+ lactations.

Stuff a processor making a quick buck by selling on world market, decent price for a year, then poor price for next year, farmer having to push cows to the limit to keep jis head above water.

^^^ That's no good. Cows aren't a piece of machinery.

This isn't the farmers' faults. It's the industry. They need to work out a way of paying say 50-60p consistently, and work with the farmers to ensure that translates into more lactations and less metabolic stress.

I know there's people already doing this with say British Friesian, spring calving, on grass, very few concentrates, and turning a profit. But there's plenty more who've been forced to push cows to the limit.

As said, very broad brush statements made above, but the milk buyers need to understand what I've just written, and then act on it. It'll be the farmers who get the bad publicity for culling young cows due to general herd metabolic stress. And don't anyone come back and say it's fine to be culling cows after 2-3 lactations. It's not. Something is seriously wrong with the industry if that's happening. It's not the farmers fault. It's the milk purchasing/pricing system, and it should be changed. Cow welfare must come first.

Rant over.

And if the milk marketplace can't be responsible enough to cater for the livestock, then it needs government intervention.

Any, absolutely any, milk pricing contract must put animal welfare first. The price must be sufficient to ensure the cow gets priority. Profit for the milk processor must be a secondary consideration.

If we stand by and let it happen, then it's the milk industry which gets a bad name, which means more oat milk purchased by consumers, and oat milk is £1.90/litre. So given we need to out cow welfare first, why isn't cow milk retailed at £1.90/litre?

Something is very wrong, and with the new milk contract laws, there's an opportunity for producers to represent this point to their buyers.

 

[Wesley]

And don't anyone come back and say it's fine to be culling cows after 2-3 lactations

I’m not saying its something to aim for but if its unacceptable/poor welfare to cull dairy cattle after 2-3 lactations do you consider beef farming as unacceptable & wrong? Thats the same species but culled even younger.
If you don’t could you explain the difference?

 

[Grass And Grain]

And put a quota system in place as well which will be required to stop milk production going through the roof.

I'm not a milk producer, so need educating.

How do many existing contracts work? Can you supply endless quantities of milk at a set price? Or is there some sort of cap. Presumably Tesco only need so much milk?

 

[Grass And Grain]

I’m not saying its something to aim for but if its unacceptable/poor welfare to cull dairy cattle after 2-3 lactations do you consider beef farming as unacceptable & wrong? Thats the same species but culled even younger.
If you don’t could you explain the difference?

Yes. The beef animal has been slaughtered and earned because it has reached age/weight/fat class.

The 2.5 lactation dairy cow has been culled because it's been under metabolic stress. Otherwise it would have lasted quite nicely until heading on for 10 years old. We can't see it like we see dirty bedding or a neck lesion due to bad feed fence design, or uncomfortable cubicle because cubicle is too small, etc

We think welfare is good because they've got a clean cubicle, plenty of feed and vet care. But those cows have been made to work overtime, and they haven't been able to cope. Not back in calf because of metabolic overload. Laminitis due to overfeeding of starch. Sub-clinical acidosis. And probably a while load more things we don't understand, but have meant she only lasted 1/4 of what she should have done if the milk price has meant she hadn't been pushed so hard.

It's a publicity disaster waiting to happen, and all the buyers need to do is price dairy products in supermarket at same price as oat milk.

 

[Grass And Grain]

I'm sort of taking an extreme view here, and expect to be challenged, but I'm only doing it for a point of discussion. Although I think I've got a good point.

 

[frederick]

I'm not a milk producer, so need educating.

How do many existing contracts work? Can you supply endless quantities of milk at a set price? Or is there some sort of cap. Presumably Tesco only need so much milk?

The milk market is exactly the same as the wheat market. It is a global commodity and traded as such. If there is to much the price goes down to little and it goes up. The bulk of UK milk contracts are open ended and permit each supplier to produce as much as they want.

If I had to pick a number for milk price it would be low 40ppl and animal welfare would be fine.

We may need another couple of ppl to invest in capital infrastructure going forwards.

 

[Scholsey]

And put a quota system in place as well which will be required to stop milk production going through the roof.

Milk buyers should do it themselves but then why would they?

 

[frederick]

Yes. The beef animal has been slaughtered and earned because it has reached age/weight/fat class.

The 2.5 lactation dairy cow has been culled because it's been under metabolic stress. Otherwise it would have lasted quite nicely until heading on for 10 years old. We can't see it like we see dirty bedding or a neck lesion due to bad feed fence design, or uncomfortable cubicle because cubicle is too small, etc

We think welfare is good because they've got a clean cubicle, plenty of feed and vet care. But those cows have been made to work overtime, and they haven't been able to cope. Not back in calf because of metabolic overload. Laminitis due to overfeeding of starch. Sub-clinical acidosis. And probably a while load more things we don't understand, but have meant she only lasted 1/4 of what she should have done if the milk price has meant she hadn't been pushed so hard.

It's a publicity disaster waiting to happen, and all the buyers need to do is price dairy products in supermarket at same price as oat milk.

I think it odd a non dairy farmer to have such specific views on numbers of lactations etc. your 7 average is just ridiculous. The vast majority of the industry will be sub 4.