Herbal leys and precision grazing

[Jackov Altraids]

I had hoped to go to the event near Exeter yesterday and would love to hear any comments/ thoughts/ experience of anybody that went [or didn't!].

 

[unlacedgecko]

I didn't make it, but apparently it was very good.

Key points from someone in my grazing group who attended;

Focus on ley performance, but think carefully about stock class and monitor DLWG. Good to look long term (5+yes) but short term profit and cashflow is vital.

Aim for 30% of farm in high quality forage for finishing.

Take time away from farm to plan without distractions.

Ensure you plan in holidays.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I didn't make it, but apparently it was very good.

Key points from someone in my grazing group who attended;

Focus on ley performance, but think carefully about stock class and monitor DLWG. Good to look long term (5+yes) but short term profit and cashflow is vital.

Aim for 30% of farm in high quality forage for finishing.

Take time away from farm to plan without distractions.

Ensure you plan in holidays.

Thanks.

It sounds like it was more of a discussion between those doing it rather than a 'How to' for the uninitiated.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Thanks.

It sounds like it was more of a discussion between those doing it rather than a 'How to' for the uninitiated.

There was some “how to”. I understand the balance was well struck.

 

[Jerry]

I was there, almost next door to me and I helped establish the trail plots.

Very interesting day, on show of hands about half of the 200 attendees did not currently practice cell grazing

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I was there, almost next door to me and I helped establish the trail plots.

Very interesting day, on show of hands about half of the 200 attendees did not currently practice cell grazing

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How/ when did you establish those plots?

 

[Jerry]

How/ when did you establish those plots?

I’d have to check diary but:

Field was bale grazed with cattle over last winter. Was an established ley.

As can be seen it was a fair slope, stony in parts and shallow soil in parts. I can testify to that as a few shear bolts went.

In spring the ground was lightly disced, I then ran a he-va stealth low disturbance subsoiled through it before being disced again.

Drought then started so nothing drilled till late may. All plots put in with kockerling air seeder and then rolled.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I was there, almost next door to me and I helped establish the trail plots.

Very interesting day, on show of hands about half of the 200 attendees did not currently practice cell grazing

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not being funny but why is that so special to warrant a field day? many have been using chickory and plantain, low level brassicas in with mixes etc for yrs and as far as cell grazing well thats been around for some time as well but not much take up , the simple strip fence however endures.
not sure why that sort of ground would need even shallow subsioling ? ie larger particle size topsoil and below ...and using plants like chickory with its tap root will do a natural job and cheaper than diesal at a pound a litre for a start, at that anyway ,they like a bit of room to establish tho remmber and wont last as longer as perennial grass ,unless its let got to seed after a couple of years to replace itself. an amazing plant that sheep will graze on and off through the year , and survives well in a drought to come back soon as there a shower or 2.


No sward lifters around either ,saw a few used year or 2 ago and know someone who got one on a grant but as time passed other things were a priortiy i guess, becasuse theyve not done it since.
Good set of discs are a worthwhile long term investment though time has proven lwith the same common sense use ( only dry soils underneath at least )

Ciao.

 

[ringi]

why that sort of ground would need even shallow subsioling

Is the subsoiling needed due to the weight of tractor that is used due to the power requirement of a subsoiler?

 

[buttercup]

How many bales did you get, and what are the CP and ME levels ?

 

[Jerry]

Is the subsoiling needed due to the weight of tractor that is used due to the power requirement of a subsoiler?

The view was taken that the subsoiler was needed as the field had been bale grazed and heavily stocked with cattle the previous winter, so had been worked hard by them.

Also many of the mixes in the trial plots had a brassica included. In a previous trail I did, where I used the LD subsoiler in a field ahead of forage rape, there was a significant difference in yield where the subsoiler was used.

 

[steveR]

As far as I am concerned, all the above stuff is a bit irrelevant to me, if it doesn't rain....

 

[Jerry]

As far as I am concerned, all the above stuff is a bit irrelevant to me, if it doesn't rain....

Thats fair enough, and we are in much the same situation in needing rain, but the amount of feed the farm has in front of the stock is very surprising given the weather and soil type.

The herbal leys have worked very well.

The trial plots are a "diverse" mix comparison. Not herbal leys.

These will be left after grazing to regrow, will be interesting to see how they fair into next year.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Herbal leys ,for a start ,is a current grand and trendy tagline type name thing , all you have to do is chuck some of different types of seed like chickory etc in with your reseed . very very simple. not rocket science or some special new directive or consultant preach but that sounds a bit de rigeur doesnt it and people need some extra 'stimulus ' i guess trouble in doing so they put them selves inline for an extra cost spoiller ,like special seed mixes created and charged for accordingly by the seed suppliers .

and chucking brassica in with a new ley has been done for as long as i can remmber , why is that so special do people forget or something? or is it that new generations farming take not a jot of notice of what has gone before ?, i despair i really do. or ditto has that got to be a special mixed and bagged mixture for special use

who put this event on anyway? dont tell me it was ahdb ? or was it defra

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Reduce the grass seed up the clover and add some Chicory and Plantain, no need tibspend a fortune

 

[Bury the Trash]

Reduce the grass seed up the clover and add some Chicory and Plantain, no need tibspend a fortune

thats what i do mole valley f's sell bits and bobs of all sorts which is really useful.

and PS. keeping longer cover and ' woody,' even stemmy bits from the chickory over winter will be cheaper than any pass with a subsoiler as well.

 

[ringi]

and PS. keeping longer cover and ' woody,' even stemmy bits from the chickory over winter will be cheaper than any pass with a subsoiler as well.

Does that work for a farm that has sheep but no cattle?

Does it give the lay a longer life?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

not being funny but why is that so special to warrant a field day? many have been using chickory and plantain, low level brassicas in with mixes etc for yrs and as far as cell grazing well thats been around for some time as well but not much take up , the simple strip fence however endures.
not sure why that sort of ground would need even shallow subsioling ? ie larger particle size topsoil and below ...and using plants like chickory with its tap root will do a natural job and cheaper than diesal at a pound a litre for a start, at that anyway ,they like a bit of room to establish tho remmber and wont last as longer as perennial grass ,unless its let got to seed after a couple of years to replace itself. an amazing plant that sheep will graze on and off through the year , and survives well in a drought to come back soon as there a shower or 2.


No sward lifters around either ,saw a few used year or 2 ago and know someone who got one on a grant but as time passed other things were a priortiy i guess, becasuse theyve not done it since.
Good set of discs are a worthwhile long term investment though time has proven lwith the same common sense use ( only dry soils underneath at least )

Ciao.

Just a passing comment on your "cell grazing" question.

Allan Savory dislikes this term immensely because it's rapidly simplified into an "all you have to do" type of thought process.

Obviously "all you really have to do" is maximise the number of rest days, per pasture, per annum to increase productivity, and to do this in our type of climate high utilisation grazing must be practiced.

And this can be done in any type of grazing setup; the obvious is that after the high utilisation the land needs a lot of rest, which is where increasing the number of paddocks available to graze helps maintain the high stock density needed to maintain both the pasture, and the rest aspects.

On our place:
To maintain good pasture quality within 18 large paddocks, we would want to be on a 35 day rotation to "preserve quality" whereas the same species, same time of year etc with 500 cells we can push the rest times out to 4x that of the old system in the spring, and have 90% of our farm ready to graze at any given moment.

This means we are able to let plants past the "thou shalt not pass 2/3 leaves" and "thou shalt not pass XXXXkgDM/acre" type of guidelines that cause normal rotational grazing to fall over seasonally, and bring some resilience back into our grazing.

This is halfway through our rotation, 60 days since grazing and 60 days to when the animals are planned to be here. In our old system we'd basically have to graze each month, leaving us drought-prone and firefighting animal health issues.

Unfortunately the trend away from perennial grasses is usually a backward step in terms of increasing landscape function, as you rightly suggested in your post.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

All falls over when it doesn't rain from May to mid September and you get high temperatures as well.
Certainly a year when Clover is essential and permanent grass as it survives drought.
We have some Chicory, but it will be interesting to see how or if it recovers from the drought when we get enough rain.

 

[jondear]

I found this year even the chicory didn't like the drought

thats what i do mole valley f's sell bits and bobs of all sorts which is really useful.

and PS. keeping longer cover and ' woody,' even stemmy bits from the chickory over winter will be cheaper than any pass with a subsoiler as well.

I thought this year the chicory didn't like being grazed especially when it bolted due to drought all summer .The plantain survives much better and is more palatable. .