Hybrid Wheats

[Against_the_grain]

We have some very light land which usually burns up about this time of year due to lack of moisture. I understand that Hybrid Wheats are supposed to be better in more marginal conditions such as lighter soils or a drier season.
Does anyone have experience with them and want to share their thoughts?

 

[Gong Farmer]

Has to be very marginal as they are prone to fall down faster than a one-legged ice skater.

 

[ollie989898]

Jury firmly out for me on hybrid wheats.

Drill earlier, into good seed bed, ensure P and K adequate and hope for the best?

 

[Against_the_grain]

Are they likely to be a better bet than a 'standard' wheat? Hybrid seed is obviously very expensive, which reduces the margin and I imagine if land is droughty its still going to be a poorish crop, just maybe not quite so poor. I think maybe the quality of these hybrids will be better though with higher hectolitre weights?

 

[HarryB97]

Triticale be worth a look, can pass it off as feed wheat

 

[Farmer Roy]

I would have thought it depends on the characteristics of the particular hybrid & the criteria that were used in its breeding ? ie - yield / disease resistance / grain protein / drought hardiness / lodging etc etc

I would also assume the seed is quite a bit more expensive, so from a risk management point of view, minimising your exposure, that doesn’t make sense in marginal conditions

if you are worried about lack of moisture & marginal conditions, it is far more effective to look at various management practices, ( if you aren’t aware, I have a bit of experience with cropping in a dry & highly variable climate ), than focusing just on specific variety . . .

seeding rates / plant populations, fertiliser rates, retaining ground cover, focussing on conserving soil moisture & maximising soil life all will have far more effect.
Perhaps also the biggest thing to change is to lower your own expectation of what yields are possible & realise that max yield doesn’t always mean max profit. Lower yielding crops can be very profitable if you can keep control of spending.

at the end of the day, is light marginal land even suited to wheat production, if you are worried about running out of moisture ?

barley or triticale tend to be more popular here on lighter country than wheat

 

[Farmer Roy]

Personally, I wouldn’t plant any crop if I thought it was going to burn up or run out of moisture

that is part of risk management in a dry environment & why conserving / storing soil moisture is crucial

 

[ollie989898]

I would have thought it depends on the characteristics of the particular hybrid & the criteria that were used in its breeding ? ie - yield / disease resistance / grain protein / drought hardiness / lodging etc etc

I would also assume the seed is quite a bit more expensive, so from a risk management point of view, minimising your exposure, that doesn’t make sense in marginal conditions

if you are worried about lack of moisture & marginal conditions, it is far more effective to look at various management practices, ( if you aren’t aware, I have a bit of experience with cropping in a dry & highly variable climate ), than focusing just on specific variety . . .

seeding rates / plant populations, fertiliser rates, retaining ground cover, focussing on conserving soil moisture & maximising soil life all will have far more effect.
Perhaps also the biggest thing to change is to lower your own expectation of what yields are possible & realise that max yield doesn’t always mean max profit. Lower yielding crops can be very profitable if you can keep control of spending.

at the end of the day, is light marginal land even suited to wheat production, if you are worried about running out of moisture ?

barley or triticale tend to be more popular here on lighter country than wheat

Roy, the whole hybrid thing here has been passed off/sold on as a 'ahhhh you get hybrid vigour because it's a hybrid, isn't it?'

 

[Chae1]

Roy, the whole hybrid thing here has been passed off/sold on as a 'ahhhh you get hybrid vigour because it's a hybrid, isn't it?'

It is pretty spectacular the vigour of hybrids.

We'd 40 acres of winter barley that looked a write off, April, May.

It has made a amazing recovery and now looks a respectable crop.

I'll still be surprised if it yields much over 3t. But looks good from roadside. Which is main thing.

 

[basford]

Speak to John Poulton at CROPCO he knows as much about them as anyone

 

[som farmer]

the problem is we just don't accept that parts of the UK are semi arid, at the present time, which could easily be the future norm, or just as easily return to a 'green and pleasant land'.

if you accept that at the present time, we are semi arid, then we need to farm for that. Plenty of other countries around the world, adapt to those conditions, and farm profitably.

Here we just go into panic mode, and blame everybody else, bar ourselves, because we have sown a crop, into conditions which do not/will not, allow it to perform to its potential.

Bad years used to occur occasionally, and were manageable, they seem to be quite frequent now.

 

[nxy]

We tried them a few years ago but soon gave up on them. The recommended seed rate was so low that the crops looked awful coming up, they did tiller well enough to almost catch up but then never really did yield as well as non hybrid types. I wonder what they would be like at normal sowing rates but the cost would be frightening. On our lightest land we stick to triticale and rye which we find far more reliable on poor land.

Wheat varieties here are classified by how early they come to ear, The variety Extase which I believe is popular in the UK for example is really only recommended north of the Loire. Its too late coming into ear for the warmer drier south.

 

[Fish]

We tried some 8/9 years ago, i believe the variety was Hystar, 4 Ha drilled in the middle of a 17 Ha light land block.
The yield was ok, around 9t ha and early to harvest, problem was, the surrounding conventional wheat yielded better.
We never repeated the exercise.

 

[Flat 10]

We tried them a few years ago but soon gave up on them. The recommended seed rate was so low that the crops looked awful coming up, they did tiller well enough to almost catch up but then never really did yield as well as non hybrid types. I wonder what they would be like at normal sowing rates but the cost would be frightening. On our lightest land we stick to triticale and rye which we find far more reliable on poor land.

Wheat varieties here are classified by how early they come to ear, The variety Extase which I believe is popular in the UK for example is really only recommended north of the Loire. Its too late coming into ear for the warmer drier south.

I believe they are more popular in France though?

 

[nxy]

I believe they are more popular in France though?

Yes, there are always a few in local trials, generally the yields are nothing special, though just like in the UK trials are rarely on "challenging" sites so its not really a fair indication of their potential on poor land.

 

[Farmer Roy]

the problem is we just don't accept that parts of the UK are semi arid, at the present time, which could easily be the future norm, or just as easily return to a 'green and pleasant land'.

if you accept that at the present time, we are semi arid, then we need to farm for that. Plenty of other countries around the world, adapt to those conditions, and farm profitably.

Here we just go into panic mode, and blame everybody else, bar ourselves, because we have sown a crop, into conditions which do not/will not, allow it to perform to its potential.

Bad years used to occur occasionally, and were manageable, they seem to be quite frequent now.

as an outsider & as someone who has a lot of experience & comes from an area where dealing with climate extremes & a generally “arid” environment ( although, we are semi tropical & get big floods every 10 or 20 years ), it occurs to me that very few in the UK are prepared to change their management, to acknowledge that maybe “drought” is something that may become more common, or God forbid, actually look at what people in drier environments do, ask advice or even take any interest in other options or practices

the UK still seems to think you can just abuse your soils, that drainage is crucial, that storing soil moisture isn’t necessary & that it will rain every second day. If that is the case, why are “drought” threads on TFF sooooo common & frequent

if “drought” is so frequent, maybe you should look at trying to manage for it ?

 

[Flat 10]

as an outsider & as someone who has a lot of experience & comes from an area where dealing with climate extremes & a generally “arid” environment ( although, we are semi tropical & get big floods every 10 or 20 years ), it occurs to me that very few in the UK are prepared to change their management, to acknowledge that maybe “drought” is something that may become more common, or God forbid, actually look at what people in drier environments do, ask advice or even take any interest in other options or practices

the UK still seems to think you can just abuse your soils, that drainage is crucial, that storing soil moisture isn’t necessary & that it will rain every second day. If that is the case, why are “drought” threads on TFF sooooo common & frequent

if “drought” is so frequent, maybe you should look at trying to manage for it ?

True. But if hybrid wheat is more drought resilient then that is trying to manage for it.

 

[Farmer Roy]

True. But if hybrid wheat is more drought resilient then that is trying to manage for it.

we don’t have any hybrid wheat varieties. . . ( we have hybrid canola, all our sorghum / sunflowers / corn ( maize ) / cotton & who knows what else, are hybrid varieties ), but in our environment there just isn’t any economic value to hybrid wheats . ..
What does that suggest ?


There are so many other practices that will have greater impact
And don’t cost anything, just a change of mindset

it’s not always about just buying another product or spending more money

in a marginal climate, the focus should probably be on spending less money

 

[Farmer Roy]

It’s like all the posts on fertiliser & drought struck crops & best way to put it on or what will get crops growing


no - if your crop is drought struck, what it needs & what will be most beneficial is soil moisture. You DEFINITELY don’t throw more money at it

 

[Farmer Roy]

EVERY year since I joined TFF, there has been a “drought” thread. So - I reckon it must be the new normal & you’d better start adapting to it.