Ive been keeping a secret...

[Jdunn55]

Why anyone would use a -fertility bull for what ever breed is beyond me

Because the friesian is so so so far ahead of the holstein for fertility, actually improving it is very difficult. I believe the highest fertility bull out of the top 10 friesians is only 2.6 which isn't exactly huge comapred to the best holsteins which are over 10 points for feriliry, and I think something like 5 out of 10 are negative fertility

Just to compare

Erbesol is 0.2 points better than my bull for fertility
Leeds is 7.6 points worse
Rocky is 7.2 points worse
Peace is 8.3 points worse
And captain is 7.7 points worse...

 

[TheRanger]

Again don’t understand why you would use a bull not in the top 5%

Because the friesian is so so so far ahead of the holstein for fertility, actually improving it is very difficult. I believe the highest fertility bull out of the top 10 friesians is only 2.6 which isn't exactly huge comapred to the best holsteins which are over 10 points for feriliry, and I think something like 5 out of 10 are negative fertility

Just to compare

Erbesol is 0.2 points better than my bull for fertility
Leeds is 7.6 points worse
Rocky is 7.2 points worse
Peace is 8.3 points worse
And captain is 7.7 points worse...

Both bulls recommended by @dinderleat over on the other thread recently, neither in the top 5% holsteins for fertility

 

[More to life]

This has gone way off the rails , if you focus on the bulls available. The highest rated genomic friesan available is Collycrof Ted at 5.4 so 15.3 on a holstien base. There are 11 holsteins rated higher,non of the top 100 are are negative for fertility.

Editing for transparency using the correct formula it only 2 holsteins that are better Ted would be 18.1 on a holstein base sorry my bad.

 

[dinderleat]

Both bulls recommended by @dinderleat over on the other thread recently, neither in the top 5% holsteins for fertility

Alta Severus, highview to be fair I hadn’t really studied the Friesian proof for fertility and I am surprised the new bulls aren’t improving fertility that much. I think the highest on the Friesian base would be 5 so I think alta Severus would be better than that for fertility.
I am happy for James he’s worked hard to get to this point he’s also been fortunate to buy some of the best Friesian cows in the country and some congratulations should go to the previous breeder.

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

This has gone way off the rails , if you focus on the bulls available. The highest rated genomic friesan available is Collycrof Ted at 5.4 so 15.3 on a holstien base. There are 11 holsteins rated higher,non of the top 100 are are negative for fertility.

So Holsteins are better for fertility than friesians?

 

[Jdunn55]

So Holsteins are better for fertility than friesians?

If you had 2 herds of say 100 cows each, all from the exact same cow

1 herd was sired by altaseverus who's +15 fertility
And 1 herd sired by my bull

The altaseverus daughters should be better fertility.

In the real world that isn't the case and you'd find very little difference between them fertility wise if any.

They do 2 completely different things, but for a holstein herd wanting to use a friesian then my bulls fertility score shouldn't put them off by any means if they're using any holstein bull with a score of less than say 9 on the fertility index.

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

If you had 2 herds of say 100 cows each, all from the exact same cow

1 herd was sired by altaseverus who's +15 fertility
And 1 herd sired by my bull

The altaseverus daughters should be better fertility.

In the real world that isn't the case and you'd find very little difference between them fertility wise if any.

They do 2 completely different things, but for a holstein herd wanting to use a friesian then my bulls fertility score shouldn't put them off by any means if they're using any holstein bull with a score of less than say 9 on the fertility index.

It’s surprising though that on a Holstein base the friesian isn’t better. Personally I think the friesian should be miles ahead but just goes how advanced the Holstein is now.

 

[In the pit]

Fertility is all down to feeding ,as @Jdunn55 said himself ,feeding was totally wrong last year and fertility was a disaster this year totally different

 

[Farmer Keith]

The current top bull (genomic and proven) has been in one of the top 2 spots for 4 years.

But he seems like an outlier the way the thread was going yesterday? If the genomics is working as it should a high proportion on these bulls should be sticking around for a reasonable length of time.

 

[Farmer Keith]

Agreed.

But those using JDunns bull will be predominantly Holstein herds, and his bull would be in the top 23% if ranked alongside the top 100 pli Holstein bulls by Fertility Index.

I'm currently using all holstein bulls with high fertility index rankings. But have used BF bulls in the past and I like everything about them except their yields (particularly as heifers). If James can breed a bull that rivals the Holsteins I'm using in fertility, while giving a bit of strength and longevity and not losing too much yield I might be interested.

Can look at that from the other side of the coin if you wish, is the reason the average number of lactations in the UK is 1.9 because Holsteins give too much milk as heifers? The milks just a sideline in 1st lactation the main aim here is to set them up to do 5-8 lactations there after.

 

[st piran]

wish l had 10%, be more than happy.
l wouldn't like to try and guess how much he has spent up there, definitely run out of fingers and toes.

but, he is bringing a huge amount of money into the local economy, so while he prices some out of the mkt, he puts a lot back in.

He’s spending large sums down in cornwall now. Someone said the budget was £17m and they’d already spent £23m Fair way off being finished too by the looks of it. He’s keeping a serious amount of men and machines in work.

 

[som farmer]

nutrition plays a huge part in fertility, it doesn't make a lot of difference to any bulls fertility, if their nutrition is wrong.

we have finished calving, we had a few calve the same day, leaving 4 to calve, so stopped the transition diet, for about a week, just impractical to do, but it gave us our second milk fever of the autumn, wrong nutrition = problem.

similar, 60% of block been served since 21 dec, nutrition is the key.

 

[som farmer]

He’s spending large sums down in cornwall now. Someone said the budget was £17m and they’d already spent £23m Fair way off being finished too by the looks of it. He’s keeping a serious amount of men and machines in work.

600 full/pt up here, plus builders landscapers.

the downside, impossible to find decent labour, 9 till 5, 5 day week, clean working, plus all the perks, who can blame them ?

one small contractor has gone from 1 digger, to 21 !

the problem will come, when its finished, a lot of labour will be back in the mkt. There again, not sure the 'developments' will ever stop.

mate works up there, p/time, he's cut his hours back, but he was going to give up, they really didn't want him to stop, age 70.

 

[dinderleat]

If you want to focus on on it solely then yes. As @Jdunn55 has previously said it’s very low heritability and very dependent on management. I personally only use positive fertility bulls otherwise paying little attention to it.

Any idea what the base for kgs of fat and kgs of pro for each breed are?

 

[More to life]

Any idea what the base for kgs of fat and kgs of pro for each breed are?

That this shows is holstien to friesian for fertility is minus 12.7 that makes more sense and evens things up.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Great stuff congratulations

 

[Jdunn55]

@Holsteinfriesian90
So from the above, you gonna send your friesian semen back and order up some altaseverus instead?

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

@Holsteinfriesian90
So from the above, you gonna send your friesian semen back and order up some altaseverus instead?

No definitely not . Holsteins don’t suit our simple system.

 

[Jdunn55]

No definitely not . Holsteins don’t suit our simple system.

But they're much more fertile!

Plus why wouldnt you focus on his 1 major flaw that just so happens to be the least heritable trait, its not like he ranks number 1 for the top 3 heritable traits or anything...

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

But they're much more fertile!

Plus why wouldnt you focus on his 1 major flaw that just so happens to be the least heritable trait, its not like he ranks number 1 for the top 3 heritable traits or anything...

Still like to use plus on fertility bulls. The premier cows are noticeably harder to get in calf.