Land rental, Scotland

[verdifish]

So. Any help within question is grateful.
3 years ago we started to rent a field next to the house. The owner said it would be a short duration let so we would have to take of all livestock for at least one day per year,and we would have no subsidy entitlement,
she also she would sort out a written Contract and the price would be £100 per acre, expensive for the area but worth it to have a hospital feild next to the house and buildings. she sowed new seed and we waited for the Green light to use it.
Once the green light was given the owner kept saying she would sort out the contract but the price had risen to £200 per acre, the price increase did pee us off but again it's invaluable to have the land so close to the farm.
We kept visiting over the next few months to sign the contract and after a while gave up.as she always had an excuse as to why the contract wasn't ready.
So currently we pay £200 per acre and have done for over 3 years, livestock of one shape or form has been on the land in an unbroken chain for this time, all provable by the movement book for this cph number ( different to ours). What kind of contract would we have under the law and can she give us 2 months notice to quit.? Our lawyer is unsure but thinks we may have an agricultural lease and the landlord can't get us off unless we stop paying.your thoughts please and thanks for reading.

 

[Henarar]

The owner said it would be a short duration let

 

[verdifish]

^^^ but she has no contract signed to this end.

 

[Stewartry hill]

You are certainly going to fall out with her but at 200 an acre it won't really matter

 

[verdifish]

1000 apologies. She said it would be a grazing tenancy not as I previously said a short duration let. But the facts still remain, 3+ years paid, no contract and livestock on the land unbroken.

 

[Henarar]

She said it would be a grazing tenancy

Grass keep then ?
and you want to claim an AG lease ?

 

[verdifish]

No I said that's what our lawyer said it might be! I'm not sure what situation we are in. But I do know I don't want to loose use of the land with 2 months notice.

 

[wasted years]

No I said that's what our lawyer said it might be! I'm not sure what situation we are in. But I do know I don't want to loose use of the land with 2 months notice.

As much as anything this is a moral question for me.
No doubt if you spend the cash you will pull a fast one and prove a tenancy,the landowner is as much to blame for not getting the paperwork in order though.
The question I would ask is whether this course of action is a good idea in terms of your reputation further afield and whether you would be happy to go against the spirit of an agreed let.

 

[verdifish]

She is telling us to get of off her land because we asked for a,repairs to fencing and b, the 36K she owes us for wind turbine payments. so are we in any shape morally wrong or is she. She doesn't need the land. Has claimed sfp on it all throughout the time we have used it. Claimed the increase from the original £100 per acre to £200 per acre was because the grass seed was more than she reckoned with. Although we later found out the land is on a wild flower meadow scheme. And this scheme paid for the seed not her.

 

[verdifish]

Please remember she went against the spirit of the agreed let when she doubled the acre price.

 

[verdifish]

Morally my soul is clean.

 

[AndrewB]

Do you rent from anyone else, you don't want to get a bad reputation no one will ever rent ground to you in the future.

 

[rose pilchett]

Why does she owe you 36k

 

[Jim75]

Why does she owe you 36k

And does it even come into the equation if it's nothing to do with the field? As others have said if you do what you're wanting to do it'll be very tricky renting land even if you offer the most.

 

[wasted years]

She is telling us to get of off her land because we asked for a,repairs to fencing and b, the 36K she owes us for wind turbine payments. so are we in any shape morally wrong or is she. She doesn't need the land. Has claimed sfp on it all throughout the time we have used it. Claimed the increase from the original £100 per acre to £200 per acre was because the grass seed was more than she reckoned with. Although we later found out the land is on a wild flower meadow scheme. And this scheme paid for the seed not her.

All of a sudden when pushed,another part of the jigsaw is revealed.
What is this 36k all about? No mention of it before!
I'm ooot.

 

[verdifish]

Part of the planning stipulation is " a financial interest in the wind turbine development company " as it's 280m from our property, we had no issues with the turbine and said so.5% was the agreed amount. Now she seems to not want to pay out and is doing everything to create drama because we dared ask for whats legally, morally ours. I am 100% sure if at the planning stage we had said no it wouldn't have got PP

 

[spin cycle]

if she wants you off...and owes you a wayleave of 36k....going on the info we've got as a caveat...i'd go for an ag lease and knock the rent of the money owing....36k pays a good bit of lawyer bills

 

[verdifish]

The thing is the land and the money owed from the wind turbine are 2 separate issues. Or at least they should be. Right at the very beginning I suggested just deducting the rent for the land from the money owed on the turbine and the answer was definitely not as her wind turbine company and her agriculture are two separate businesses and she couldn't rob from Peter to pay Paul which I fully understand as the accountant would have a fit. Someone mentioned morals earlier. And in my estimation it's the land owner who's morally bankrupt.

 

[glasshouse]

I take it your 5% is in writing?
She cannot put you off the land as you can now claim a 5 yr sldt.
Sounds like a typical money grabbing stranger to the truth.

 

[Henarar]

Someone mentioned morals earlier. And in my estimation it's the land owner who's morally bankrupt

Yes now you mention the 35k it puts a different take on it, before that I thought you were having a laugh, yes the two things should be separate but money is money
I think if possible you need to sort it out with her face to face without starting to play games or sink to her level